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Shot size fer squrrils...?
- Thread starter PaulN/KS
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IMO, for general squirrel hunting with various distances involved, I think 7.5s might be a little light and 6's are what I settled on.PaulN/KS said:
4's would really do a number, but the low pellet count issue starts to become a factor, unless you have a choked smoothbore.
I just got a free bag of #5's the other day so I'm going to see how they pattern as well.
But personally, I'd eliminate the 7.5s & 4's, then do some math and a few patterns to decide between 6's or 5's.
Thanks Roundball,
#5s were great for ducks back in the old days so should work for ya.Guess I'll see if I can find some #6s to try.My smoothbore barrel is'nt choked so it might be better to go for pellet count instead of pellet size.
#5s were great for ducks back in the old days so should work for ya.Guess I'll see if I can find some #6s to try.My smoothbore barrel is'nt choked so it might be better to go for pellet count instead of pellet size.
Our English greys are,nt that big and a cloud of 7,s does ok as they tend to catch some in the head and neck etc.
Ya know Brit, they are not all that big here in Kansas either so it might be ok.I know I killed a few with 7 1/2s while quail hunting in the past but that was a cartridge gun.I will have do some pattern and penetration tests since I already have a bag of the shot...
paulvallandigham
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I bought some plated #5 shot from Ballistics Products. A little pricey, but what isn't these days. I don't intend to use them shooting clay targets so I figure the 7lbs. should last a few years shooting squirrels or rabbits. My original plan was to use them on pheasants, using my 20 gauge fowler. Either way, They should do me for a couple of years. I have lead #5 shot to do my load workup. If you ask your dealer, he can order and buy you a bag of #5 shot. I originally used it for Annie Oakleys in trap shooting, and then on pheasants when hunting using my modern 12 ga. After I acquired my DB 12 Percussion gun, I switched to hunting pretty much with it, only. The exceptions have been on really rainy days, when I didn't want to slow down a drive by having to stop to reload my ML.
I really have enjoyed how well the #5 shot patterns, and knocks down pheasants compared to using #6 shot. No, I was not expecting to see much difference, either. That is what made the surprise for me. At first I thought maybe I had a fluke shot to the head of a bird that piled up and hit the ground like a big hand slapped it out of the air. But an examination of the bird showed no hits on the head, but good body hits. Subsequent experience with #5 on both pheasants and chukkar partridge show the performance repeats itself with any kind of hit.
I really have enjoyed how well the #5 shot patterns, and knocks down pheasants compared to using #6 shot. No, I was not expecting to see much difference, either. That is what made the surprise for me. At first I thought maybe I had a fluke shot to the head of a bird that piled up and hit the ground like a big hand slapped it out of the air. But an examination of the bird showed no hits on the head, but good body hits. Subsequent experience with #5 on both pheasants and chukkar partridge show the performance repeats itself with any kind of hit.
DaveK put me onto an excellent low cost, highly sophisticated, scientific penetration test media:PaulN/KS said:
Tuna cans! :grin:
(Plus they make an excellent turkey head size target being only 3+1/2" across the bottom)
They're a pretty robust metal can compared to a lot of other cans in this day & age and do give you a good sense of what your shot load is doing. (I think some of the soup cans are pretty tough too)
Good luck!
guncobbler
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When hunting squirrels with modern shotguns always thought 6's didn't penetrate enough. Used 4's for a while but 5's gave better patterns and penetration to the offside skin. GC
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I have used 6's and 8's in my trade gun on bushy tails. I prefer the 6's. Never have tried 4's. Might have ta try 'em. Although 6's kill 'em pretty dead.
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I use a 70grs. antler tip measure for the powder and the same amount of shot. I use a wadded up leaf on top of the powder and another one on top of the ball and thumped tight with my ramrod. Real scientific, huh? I don't like ta carry anymore than I have ta. I like ta sit real quiet like until they start playing around me and then let 'em have it. :grin:
paulvallandigham
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Use Iron Jim Rackham's system involving only OS cards. He uses 4 in place of an OP wad, then his shot load, and then 2 OS cards on top of the shot. Each of the cards has a hole poked off center, and the cards are aligned so that none of the holes line up with a neighboring card's hole. I use 70 rains FFg for the charge, and 1 oz. of shot, which happens to be about 70 grains by volume setting on the same powder measure, more or less. Lube the barrel after seating the OS cards down on the shot. so fouling stays soft.
The advantage is that you only carry the one type of wad, rather than 3 different kinds. I don't have to lube up a wad to go between the powder and shot. The OS card is slick, so that it pushes against the back of the shot column evenly. That helps inprove patterns. The lube in the barrel helps the lead pellets slide down the barrel without leaving lead streaks in the bore, which ruins future patterns. The holes in the OS cards allows air to get between the cards, which makes them slow down as if they had air brakes, and fall away from the shot very quickly after leaving the barrel. Using other wads, the wads ride a vaccuum behind the column of shot for at least 10 feet before air begins to separate the shot and break apart the vaccuum. And, with that vaccuum, the lighter wadding is actually pulled into the shot column in mid air, in what auto racers described as " Drafting ". Physicists might suggest that the shot column is temporarily a heavier mass, and its gravity pulls the lighter wads toward the column of shot, through that vaccuum, but we don't have a lot of physicists here on the forum, so I will leave that analysis for another day.
All we shooters know is that thick wads travel a lot further than thin wads, and that patterns seem to " donut hole " on us when we use heavy cushion wads behind the shot, where using thin cards give a more evenly distributed pattern of shot on target. We think that ' donut " hole pattern is caused by wads pushing on the column of shot in mid-air, but for most of us, we just don't know for sure what is causing it. Its hard to believee that a light weight cushion wad, even wet with oil, or moose milk, can catch up to, much push the heavier column of shot in front of it, so as to create that donut hole pattern.
The advantage is that you only carry the one type of wad, rather than 3 different kinds. I don't have to lube up a wad to go between the powder and shot. The OS card is slick, so that it pushes against the back of the shot column evenly. That helps inprove patterns. The lube in the barrel helps the lead pellets slide down the barrel without leaving lead streaks in the bore, which ruins future patterns. The holes in the OS cards allows air to get between the cards, which makes them slow down as if they had air brakes, and fall away from the shot very quickly after leaving the barrel. Using other wads, the wads ride a vaccuum behind the column of shot for at least 10 feet before air begins to separate the shot and break apart the vaccuum. And, with that vaccuum, the lighter wadding is actually pulled into the shot column in mid air, in what auto racers described as " Drafting ". Physicists might suggest that the shot column is temporarily a heavier mass, and its gravity pulls the lighter wads toward the column of shot, through that vaccuum, but we don't have a lot of physicists here on the forum, so I will leave that analysis for another day.
All we shooters know is that thick wads travel a lot further than thin wads, and that patterns seem to " donut hole " on us when we use heavy cushion wads behind the shot, where using thin cards give a more evenly distributed pattern of shot on target. We think that ' donut " hole pattern is caused by wads pushing on the column of shot in mid-air, but for most of us, we just don't know for sure what is causing it. Its hard to believee that a light weight cushion wad, even wet with oil, or moose milk, can catch up to, much push the heavier column of shot in front of it, so as to create that donut hole pattern.
#5 is the smallest shot I would use on a squirrel. They tend to pass through the critter with fewer for the gourmet to bite down on.I'd much rather nail them with a .311rb backed with 15 gr of goex...but what ever your medicine is,enjoy.
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Hey Paul, I got my Mike Brook's fowler this week, and made the time to do a little shooting with it. I hasten to add (alright brag) that the fowler is Mike's own gun. This was the man's personal fowler for many years and I feel like I just purchased Mozarts piano. I feel Mike is to muzzleloading gunmaking what Mozart was to music. He must also be one heck of a shot, because he's been busting birds for years without a bead. Despite nearly half a century of practice, I can't do that consistently, so I put a bead on the barrel, and sort of felt like a vandal. I wondered if it was the same thing as drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa. I felt bad, until I shot it. Without the bead I couldn't break more than 5 for 10 thrown without a miss. With the bead, I went 9 for 10, and the miss was just seeing how much range I could get out of a modified (jug) choked bore. I discovered I can't get 50 yards.
This is a longwinded way of saying I'm back to shooting flying, and everyone has been asking me about my loading method. We took some pictures today, and as soon as I get the chance I'll post them. Your description of the process is excellent, but for those who need pictures I'll get them up soon.
I will no longer state why I think this loading method works, because very intelligent people tell me that my theory can't be correct. I have however developed a very sore shoulder, not from shooting, but from everyone thumping me in amazement when they try the overshot only method. It seems to work in every gun it's used in. It's as close to a universally effective load as I've encountered. Once they try it, they punch me enthusiastically in the shoulder, and shout things like "Yeah!" "Schmoked It" "Wow!" "Oh,$%^&~. You weren't kidding!
Sadly I've now developed a reflexive flinch. I don't flinch when I shoot, only when other people do, because I know that celebratory punch is coming. It's not so bad when the person is taller than me, but geez when they're shorter, and have to jab up at me, they get me right in the armpit.
I'll post the pictures so people can see how it's done, I won't have to personally demonstrate it, and my shoulder can heal before the season starts.
This is a longwinded way of saying I'm back to shooting flying, and everyone has been asking me about my loading method. We took some pictures today, and as soon as I get the chance I'll post them. Your description of the process is excellent, but for those who need pictures I'll get them up soon.
I will no longer state why I think this loading method works, because very intelligent people tell me that my theory can't be correct. I have however developed a very sore shoulder, not from shooting, but from everyone thumping me in amazement when they try the overshot only method. It seems to work in every gun it's used in. It's as close to a universally effective load as I've encountered. Once they try it, they punch me enthusiastically in the shoulder, and shout things like "Yeah!" "Schmoked It" "Wow!" "Oh,$%^&~. You weren't kidding!
Sadly I've now developed a reflexive flinch. I don't flinch when I shoot, only when other people do, because I know that celebratory punch is coming. It's not so bad when the person is taller than me, but geez when they're shorter, and have to jab up at me, they get me right in the armpit.
I'll post the pictures so people can see how it's done, I won't have to personally demonstrate it, and my shoulder can heal before the season starts.
paulvallandigham
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Jim: Nice to see you back. I wondered what had happened to you. I was getting tired of telling folks about your method of loading, and adding my suggestion of lubing the bore after seating the OS cards on the shot. I know this is not what you have done, but I found that I got much less leading in the barrel, and more round patterns, with more shot in them, when I lubed the barrel up. The other thing I think the OS card system gives to shooters are to these fellows who have the new shotguns with the screw in chokes. with OS cards, you can bend them enough to fit them down past the chokes, then turn them and seat them. That is next to impossible to do with 1/8" thick OP wads, or any sized cushion wad.
Finally, the gas seal of 4 or more OS cards instead of the OP wad is just terrific. One member today, or yesterday, indicates that he is shooting an OP wad, then a 1/4 Cushion wad, soaked in olive oil, and then drained, then the shot, and an OS card. He was getting good patterns from that combination, and soft fouling. I don't know about the leading in the barrel, and he didn't give a good description of the shape of his patterns.
Glad you like the Mike Brooks Fowler. I am sure Mike only sold it because he was moving on to a better gun. But, it had to be hard for him to part with it. Enjoy. As to those shoulder punches, tell them to stop, or you will return it in kind.
One question: Does it seem to you that you are getting more complete burning of your powder using the 4 OS cards, compared to using a OP wad? I was in the habit of turning the muzzle to the ground and giving the butt a whack to knock out any clinkers that were in the barrel, but with your method, I don't seem to have them any more.
Finally, the gas seal of 4 or more OS cards instead of the OP wad is just terrific. One member today, or yesterday, indicates that he is shooting an OP wad, then a 1/4 Cushion wad, soaked in olive oil, and then drained, then the shot, and an OS card. He was getting good patterns from that combination, and soft fouling. I don't know about the leading in the barrel, and he didn't give a good description of the shape of his patterns.
Glad you like the Mike Brooks Fowler. I am sure Mike only sold it because he was moving on to a better gun. But, it had to be hard for him to part with it. Enjoy. As to those shoulder punches, tell them to stop, or you will return it in kind.
One question: Does it seem to you that you are getting more complete burning of your powder using the 4 OS cards, compared to using a OP wad? I was in the habit of turning the muzzle to the ground and giving the butt a whack to knock out any clinkers that were in the barrel, but with your method, I don't seem to have them any more.
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6 is about the smallest you should use. 7.5 don't carry the energy needed to kill a limb chicken (I loved that term) readily. #4 are the real deal though. Drops them dead and you don't have to pick out so much lead. Hey, that's kind of poetic (drops them dead - so much lead...)!
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