Sidelocks and pellets

[dogface]

Hey Yall, newb here.
Just getting started with a CVA Mountain Stalker, about to buy the goods to get loaded up.Seems like in Pyrodex, RS powder is the standard for a sidelock, but getting a lot of conflicting info here and there on using pellets.I spoke to an experienced shooter yesterday who told me pellets would work fine if I get a kit to convert from #11 caps to shotgun primers.
How do I tell what kind of nipple is already on the rifle, and where do I find the kit to change to shotgun primers for this rifle ? :hmm:

Many Thanks.

 

Why try to convert it to something it's not? Use black powder.

 

[necchi]

Friend, just buy loose powder.
Your rifle will function just fine without all the added contraptions.

 

[Paul R]

Pellets only come in a couple standard sizes which gives you only a few mathamatical possibilities for load variation. Most, if not all, traditional MLs have a couple sweet spots where they are most accurate with a specific powder load. You have to experiment, using powder, to find those sweet spots by loading up or down 5 or 10 grains at a time and trying each load to find the best one for your gun. If you use pellets, you my end up above or below the powder load sweet spot and never realize the true potential for your gun. It would be a shame if you were never able to achieve good accuracy with your gun & then give up on muzzleloading in disgust.
Do use powder, either real black or one of the substitutes in your gun. Also, try to find a traditional shooter to mentor you or spend a lot of time reading & asking questions on this forum. Every thing you need to know has been discussed on this forum, but it does take time to find it byreading through all the posts. It is, however, time well used.
Paul

 

[Greenmtnboy]

keep it simple use REAL b.p. and shoot #11 mag caps.

 

[dogface]

I'm gettin' the same picture from all corners of North America! I'll just get the real BP and #11 caps. I know this is a really cheap basic rifle,but have read good things about it. A wood stock would be nice. The length is perfect for my short arms, but the hollow feel leaves a little to be desired balance-wise. I'll look around.When I found it and was looking it over, I threw it up to my shoulder and the sights fell right in front of my eye. Kinda sold me along with the almost give-away price. It's in great shape. I'm kind of a minimalist in general, so I find the simplicity of it appealing. I grew up with my grandfather preaching the virtues of the the old big bore BP cartridge rifles, I'll take a step further back in history with this. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Billnpatti]

Don't make any conversions to your rifle and forget the pellets. They are designed for use in the in-line guns and work poorly in sidelocks. Besides, it is not only the most expensive way to buy your powder, it is pre-measured and allows very little latitude in adjusting your loads. Just use black powder if you can get it. If it is not available where you are, you can use any of the substitutes but use the loose powder (RS granulation) not the pellets. The loose substitutes are intended to be measured the same as black powder. Because of a difference in specific density from black powder, the volume measurements will not weigh the same as the same volume as black powder but will provide load performance quite similar. Do not weigh your substitute charges because if you do, you will possibly overload your gun. Grain for grain, the substitutes produce more breach pressure than black powder. But when measured volumetrically, the breach pressure will be a bit greater but will be within safe limits providing that same volume of black powder is a safe load for your rifle.

All of what I have said may not be clear to you so let me give you an example. Let's suppose that your rifle is a .50 cal. (a very common caliber). A good starting point for developing an accurate load is 50 grains of black powder. Set your measure for 50 grains. Now you can measure either black powder or substitute powder with that setting and expect the results to be quite similar. If you were to fill your measure with black powder and then weigh it on a powder scale you will most likely find somewhat if a difference between the setting on your measure and the actual weight. Make a note of the actual weight. Now measure the exact same volume of substitute powder and weigh it. You will find that it weighs significantly less. Had you put the same weight of substitute powder as your charge of black powder, the performance would have been significantly different and if you are working at the upper end of the recommended loads, you could have a ruptured barrel. So, when using substitute powders, stick with equil volume loads as the recommended black powder loads and you will be safe.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....but the hollow feel leaves a little to be desired balance-wise.

With the butt plate/pad off put some nuts, bolts or whatever in the butt until it balances correctly. Fix them in place then fill the butt with that expanding foam from the hardware store used for insulation. Shave off the overflow and reinstall your butt pad/plate. Easy.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Roguedog]

Dogface,
Welcome aboard. I am always excited to see folks interested in shooting traditional blackpowder weapons. To echo what has been said here, do yourself a favor and avoid the pellets. If you keep your gun clean and use quality granulated powder, you should never have trouble getting ignition with #11 caps. Enjoy the journey and never be afraid to ask for advice. A lot of knowledgeable and helpful people on this board.

Jeff

 

[cynthialee]

I have that gun.

I took the butt plate off and put ALOT of lead under it and then put some foam rubber in with the lead bars and pieces to keep them from rattleing around. Got it up to 10.6 pounds. As it was the thing was so light it was mule kicking me with light charges.

Also painted the hiedeous plastic stock Pink. :grin:
You might not want to do that to yours.
:wink:

 

[Matt85]

i was unaware there was a sidelock made with a plastic stock! :barf:

there are waaaaay too many cheap sidelock rifles out there with perfectly good wood stocks to use something made from plastic! look in the classifieds section of this forum, there are a couple rifles under $300 that would be perfect for a beginner.

also... no pellets, use either fake powder or real powder. (real is best)

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Hey Yall, newb here.
Just getting started with a CVA Mountain Stalker, about to buy the goods to get loaded up.Seems like in Pyrodex, RS powder is the standard for a sidelock, but getting a lot of conflicting info here and there on using pellets.I spoke to an experienced shooter yesterday who told me pellets would work fine if I get a kit to convert from #11 caps to shotgun primers.
How do I tell what kind of nipple is already on the rifle, and where do I find the kit to change to shotgun primers for this rifle ? :hmm:

Many Thanks.

I have one with a wooden stock. It is a great shooter that I can take into the woods and not worry if it gets wet or dinged.

My best load is 85g of Goex ffg, a 0.18 patch, and a .490 PRB.It also shoots a TC Maxi-Ball over a OP wad using the same powder charge shoots equally as well.

I am using a hot shot nipple with CCI No 11 magnum caps.

Bob

 

[dogface]

Yeah, that's what I've read from several sources, that the kick is rough and that the light stock tends to slap you in the face. I'm going to go with the weight and foam in the hollow butt while I look for a wood stock, but I think I'll pass on pink. :wink:
Everyone has convinced me that powder is the only way to go.

 

[Dphar]

Hey Yall, newb here.
Just getting started with a CVA Mountain Stalker, about to buy the goods to get loaded up.Seems like in Pyrodex, RS powder is the standard for a sidelock, but getting a lot of conflicting info here and there on using pellets.I spoke to an experienced shooter yesterday who told me pellets would work fine if I get a kit to convert from #11 caps to shotgun primers.
How do I tell what kind of nipple is already on the rifle, and where do I find the kit to change to shotgun primers for this rifle ? :hmm:

Many Thanks.

Do yourself a favor and find some real blackpowder. Goex, Swiss, Schuetzen it will work better and your rifle will have a far longer service life.

Dan

 

[cynthialee]

I wasn't going to turn away a deal sweetener, which is what the plastic stock CVA was when I got it.

 

[ebiggs1]

I don't even use the “pelletts” in my guns that shoot the pelletts! I still use GOEX or Pyrodex granular.
Think about it for a minute. Why limit yourself to 50 or 100 or 150 grain loads no matter what gun you shoot. Or whatever size they come in and they are way expensive.

... while I look for a wood stock,

Personal opinion here but I would also nix the idea of “upgrading” this rifle. You can quickly spend way more than it is worth. But it's real worth is your opinion and not mine.

 

[dogface]

I'm with ya Biggs, everybody has convinced me that powder is the deal.As to putting mor into it than it's worth, not to worry. I'm tighter than the bark on a tree. The fact I paid $30 for the rifle itself should give you a hint !

 

[Prairieofthedog]

Dogface,I think you have a little room to upgrade to a wood stock for your gun being you only paid $30 bucks for it LOL.You should be able to pick up a wood stock fairly cheap.Something about plastic and sidelocks that don't go together.Shoot the heck out of it and save your money to upgrade down the road.If you have any questions about accessories just ask on here and get answers it will save you a ton of money.And yes on the black powder an #11 caps you just don't need all that other fooferall.

 

[cynthialee]

$30!?!
I'll give you 31.
:grin:

If you only paid 30 bucks you definatly have some wiggel room to buy a new stock without puting more into it than it is worth. Then you can put the composit stock you have in the closet as a back up or just sell it on the 'bay to defer some of the cost of the wood stock.

 

[nw_hunter]

Lots of good advice,,,,,,,,,,The only thing I would add is...Try using 3f instead of 2.Finer powder, takes about 10% less than 2. That makes it cheaper to shoot :wink: Every side slapper I own loves it.If you can't find Real BP, try Pyrodex P.It's finer grained, and I think you will find has a faster ignition using it over RS Pyro.Welcome to the good addiction!