Does anyone have any tips on sighting a smoothbore with no rear sight.I just cant seem to be consistant.The front sight is very tall which disrups the view of the target when I look down the barrel.I have since filed down the front sight a bit but I was concerned that I might be making it to small. Any tips?
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Sighting with no rear sight?
- Thread starter brew
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I have a Bess that taught me how to shoot it..
When my eyes got tired and had trouble with fine
sights I thought I'd try a musket and save my honor...I didn't ever think I could shoot against
rifles but liking to shoot and no more caring if or not I was the winner I found a good outlet.Yes
there is a learning and that is how much of the barrel near the front sight you have to see above
the round at the breech. Center the front sight/
bayonet lug at your target and learn where it shoots for each mark/distance...My example: no
barrel is right on for 25 yrds. about four inches
of barrel good at 50 yrds...all the way out till
at 200 yrds I see a bit more than 18". My load is
80 gr.FF and a 735 rb..I am guessing the amount of
inches of barrel..I know it when I shoot. In front
of witnesses I have hit a 200 yrd gong with disgusting regularity....and I have won matches
against ryfles [rifles] What have others said???
practice, practice practice. But,you can get good.
When my eyes got tired and had trouble with fine
sights I thought I'd try a musket and save my honor...I didn't ever think I could shoot against
rifles but liking to shoot and no more caring if or not I was the winner I found a good outlet.Yes
there is a learning and that is how much of the barrel near the front sight you have to see above
the round at the breech. Center the front sight/
bayonet lug at your target and learn where it shoots for each mark/distance...My example: no
barrel is right on for 25 yrds. about four inches
of barrel good at 50 yrds...all the way out till
at 200 yrds I see a bit more than 18". My load is
80 gr.FF and a 735 rb..I am guessing the amount of
inches of barrel..I know it when I shoot. In front
of witnesses I have hit a 200 yrd gong with disgusting regularity....and I have won matches
against ryfles [rifles] What have others said???
practice, practice practice. But,you can get good.
My front sight is only 1/16" inch tall. It is so short, it mainly serves to make sure I'm good on windage. I sight by lowering the barrel on target until the barrel just disappears below the curve of the tang ... all I can see is the top of the tang and the nub of a front sight. But that puts the ball right on the point of aim until the barrel gets hot enough to get a mirage effect going, making the sight very hard to see. One of these days I might try some sight black to see if I can cure that (it is a "bright" barrel, with no browning or bluing).
For shot, I just point it like a shotgun, using that nub of a sight just like a shotgun bead. Seven doves so far... it ain't easy, but it is doable.
Given my experience with this gun, I would say you shouldn't worry about making the sight shorter if that is what it takes to get you on target with your chosen sight picture. But, as you suggest, finding a way to get a consistent sight picture is the key.
Some things I've seen or heard about (but not tried first hand) are:
- is there a tang screw that you can see while sighting down the barrel? If so, get it turned so that the slot in the screw runs fore-and-aft and use it like a rear sight.
- file a very shallow notch in the tang right where it makes the curve down onto the wrist; use the notch like a rear sight.
- glue a BB onto the top of the barrel somewhere about where the rear sight would go and use it like a double-bead shotgun barrel.
For shot, I just point it like a shotgun, using that nub of a sight just like a shotgun bead. Seven doves so far... it ain't easy, but it is doable.
Given my experience with this gun, I would say you shouldn't worry about making the sight shorter if that is what it takes to get you on target with your chosen sight picture. But, as you suggest, finding a way to get a consistent sight picture is the key.
Some things I've seen or heard about (but not tried first hand) are:
- is there a tang screw that you can see while sighting down the barrel? If so, get it turned so that the slot in the screw runs fore-and-aft and use it like a rear sight.
- file a very shallow notch in the tang right where it makes the curve down onto the wrist; use the notch like a rear sight.
- glue a BB onto the top of the barrel somewhere about where the rear sight would go and use it like a double-bead shotgun barrel.
The stock is the part you adjust to make yore eye into the rear sight. I put an old sight on my Renegade and filed it down to about half height becasue it shot way low with the sight at full height. I'm gonna try it out this weekend. If it is shootin' high, I'll just glue a plastic bead on to it. :winking:
Wulf is on the right track here. It's a matter of repeative positioning. You have to find the right place for your cheek that gives you the same picture each time. It's as simple and difficult as that, sorry. Wulf's comments about using more or less barrel showing in your shooting will help with distance trajectory over the range of a smoothbore. It's just going to take some time to develope the right positioning...think of it as more good reasons to go shooting! :hatsoff:
54ball
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Hello,
Sight the gun like a traditional bow. Get a large target and set it up at short range. Shoot at the center shouldering the gun at your most comfortable shooting position that you can repeat over and over again. Aim the same for several shots. You may not be close to the center at this time but your groups should be tight. If you have tight groups adjust your point of aim until you are hitting dead center. Do this at variuos distances. If you haft to hold high to hit center you need to file your sight to bring POI up. The key to smoothbore shooting is to shoot an shoot. Know your gun and where it hits.
Sight the gun like a traditional bow. Get a large target and set it up at short range. Shoot at the center shouldering the gun at your most comfortable shooting position that you can repeat over and over again. Aim the same for several shots. You may not be close to the center at this time but your groups should be tight. If you have tight groups adjust your point of aim until you are hitting dead center. Do this at variuos distances. If you haft to hold high to hit center you need to file your sight to bring POI up. The key to smoothbore shooting is to shoot an shoot. Know your gun and where it hits.
longfowler
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I used to cheat with my musket by putting my left thumb over the wedding band of the barrel, using my thumbnail for elevation. It only works for a few shots- then the barrel heats up!It's not a problem at biathlon,only 2 shots at a time, but it really slows down your shooting during summer practice!
my smoothbore hawken is much easier, I painted the front sight white and look for it's reflection on the barrel flat. you'd better practice up, we'll be there to shoot with you in few short weeks!
my smoothbore hawken is much easier, I painted the front sight white and look for it's reflection on the barrel flat. you'd better practice up, we'll be there to shoot with you in few short weeks!
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
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A lot of smoothbores need to have the barrel bent up a bit to make them easier to aim with roundball. This is because the breech is usually so thick and the muzzle is so thin that you are aiming downhill. This fix is a personal thing and it scares a lot of shooters.
One thing that I do on all my smoothbores is to make my own oversized tang screw/rear sight. Take a hex headed bolt or screw that is the same length and thread as the original bolt. Chuck it into your electric drill and use a file to knock off all the corners and then shape it to look like a regular round headed screw head. Use a hacksaw to cut a new screw driver notch in the bolt. Now when you fasten it into the gun, line up the screw slot with the front sight. The top of the bolt must be below the plane of the barrel to be legal. It is amazing how much this helps in aiming a smoothbore.
Many Klatch
One thing that I do on all my smoothbores is to make my own oversized tang screw/rear sight. Take a hex headed bolt or screw that is the same length and thread as the original bolt. Chuck it into your electric drill and use a file to knock off all the corners and then shape it to look like a regular round headed screw head. Use a hacksaw to cut a new screw driver notch in the bolt. Now when you fasten it into the gun, line up the screw slot with the front sight. The top of the bolt must be below the plane of the barrel to be legal. It is amazing how much this helps in aiming a smoothbore.
Many Klatch
I want to thank Mighty Oak for starting this topic. I also want to thank evryone who is giving input. I started shooting smooth bores last year and I'm hooked. I built two kits and bought a NE fowler from MTV. I can see that you have to learn each gun and do a lot of shooting. It is just a lot of good plain fun for me. Shooting these guns kind of reminds me of useing a sling shot when I was a kid.
Thanks again and please keep sharing.
Thanks again and please keep sharing.
billy mims
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I don't post much here because I don't really know much. Do read everything you guys post though. Thanks for all the information.
I do have experience with a T/C 12 gauge. With the bead and proper placement of cheek on stock I had no problem with windage but POI was around 6in. or more low. I took layers of leather and built up the comb until the POA was same as POI. As mentioned above I think your aiming down hill.
I for a number of years shot a traditional bow using the Instinctive Style and have learned that it works even better with a smoothbore. You are only limited by your ability to pick a spot and really focus. Takes alot of practice but sure is alot of fun
Billy
I do have experience with a T/C 12 gauge. With the bead and proper placement of cheek on stock I had no problem with windage but POI was around 6in. or more low. I took layers of leather and built up the comb until the POA was same as POI. As mentioned above I think your aiming down hill.
I for a number of years shot a traditional bow using the Instinctive Style and have learned that it works even better with a smoothbore. You are only limited by your ability to pick a spot and really focus. Takes alot of practice but sure is alot of fun
Billy
I suspect ( 'cause I don't own any round breeched Smoothies ) this is a whole lot easier with a hexagonal breech. there is an old thread from last year that covers somebody filing a notch in the center of his breech/tang to use like a primitive rear sight. This is apparently PC as well as functional.
I haven't resorted to the file. I was fortunate in having a tall "turtle" sight on my hex-to-round barrel. I experimented to the point where I can use a "blade only above the barrel flat" sight picture for 25', "just obscured sight base" for 50' and "full turtle visible above flat" picture for 75'. Past 75' my groups tend to get pretty big, as you might expect with a Smoothy. For windage, I just center on the top flat. My results here are presented merely as an example.
The only way to sight in you own piece is by methodical practice and experimentation. When doing so I keep telling myself, as a prime offender of my dictum - Same load, same range, same sight picture. Until you can repeat near identical results with consistency, you can't draw a clear conclusion. Plus, if you introduce more than one variable at a time you'll just be piddling about. That's just my approach, I have some friends who are incurable "piddlers". But I shoot better than they do !
I haven't resorted to the file. I was fortunate in having a tall "turtle" sight on my hex-to-round barrel. I experimented to the point where I can use a "blade only above the barrel flat" sight picture for 25', "just obscured sight base" for 50' and "full turtle visible above flat" picture for 75'. Past 75' my groups tend to get pretty big, as you might expect with a Smoothy. For windage, I just center on the top flat. My results here are presented merely as an example.
The only way to sight in you own piece is by methodical practice and experimentation. When doing so I keep telling myself, as a prime offender of my dictum - Same load, same range, same sight picture. Until you can repeat near identical results with consistency, you can't draw a clear conclusion. Plus, if you introduce more than one variable at a time you'll just be piddling about. That's just my approach, I have some friends who are incurable "piddlers". But I shoot better than they do !
Many Klatch
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I used a Dremel tool to put a notch in my Brown Bess bayonet lug in front and a notch in the middle of the tang at the back. I can keep it in the same hole at 25 yards with this set up. It takes some practice and regular shooting to remember how much front sight to show above the breech, but it does work.
Many Klatch
Many Klatch
Pierre, you have the right sight picture, your aiming as you should while many are trying to shoot instinctively and never finding how accurate smoothies really are but I bet you have an octagon (8 sided)breech rather than a hexagonal (6 sided).
Guest
If you are going to be shooting in the biatholon or any other sanctioned smoothbore competitions it is best not to notch or perminantly mark any part of the breech. They will not even allow a raised portion of the tang or a raised tang screw.
NMLRA will allow a line scribed on the rear of the barrel.
Check your rules beflre making any permanent modifications.
NMLRA will allow a line scribed on the rear of the barrel.
Check your rules beflre making any permanent modifications.
Many Klatch
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Hey Ghost, I have never run across that rule before. You mean no round headed tang screws were legal at a shoot that you went to?
I have shot at Friendship for years. The only check that I ever get is a straight edge to make sure that my tang bolt is below the plane of the barrel and now they drop a light into the barrel to make sure some trickster hasn't shown up with a rifle with the last 3 inches bored smooth (yes it really happens :shake: ).
Many Klatch
I have shot at Friendship for years. The only check that I ever get is a straight edge to make sure that my tang bolt is below the plane of the barrel and now they drop a light into the barrel to make sure some trickster hasn't shown up with a rifle with the last 3 inches bored smooth (yes it really happens :shake: ).
Many Klatch
Guest
I went through the class last year. They were stressing that there could be no raised portion of the breech that could be used as a sighting reference, not just the tang screw. No humps or lumps on the back part of the barrel.
Oddly, they said that a rib was allowed, or a rib with a grove, but the grove could not extend to the breech.
The ideal thing would be a gold line inlayed on the tang to establish windage dotted with a gold bead set for the proper elevation. Dot the i and shoot. Bone or ivory would be fantastic too.
Oddly, they said that a rib was allowed, or a rib with a grove, but the grove could not extend to the breech.
The ideal thing would be a gold line inlayed on the tang to establish windage dotted with a gold bead set for the proper elevation. Dot the i and shoot. Bone or ivory would be fantastic too.
Capt. Jas.
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I have not been able to discern if the original poster is talking about shot or ball. These are two different animals and create two different guns if one is attempting to optimize the gun's potential. Stock configuration becomes crucial if shooting as a shotgun because you dont aim it like a rifle (smoothbore shooting roundball).
Many Klatch
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OK, yeah, you are right, you can't have any bumps on the barrel that is definately illegal.
However, as long as the tang screw is below the plane of the barrel it is legal. It isn't really a sight then, it is a reference mark.
Many Klatch
However, as long as the tang screw is below the plane of the barrel it is legal. It isn't really a sight then, it is a reference mark.
Many Klatch
Maestro
Moderator
I haven't quite perfected this myself - but I'm working on it - and it has real potential...
If you can wrap your left thumb over the top of the barrel in a consistent manner you can create a "rear sight" with a spot on the back of your thumb (considering you're a right-handed shooter, of course). :hatsoff:
If you can wrap your left thumb over the top of the barrel in a consistent manner you can create a "rear sight" with a spot on the back of your thumb (considering you're a right-handed shooter, of course). :hatsoff:
I've been known to use a thumb and finger on both sides pinched over top of the barrel to form a rear sight notch..................Bob
