Sights off center

[dledinger]

Couldn't think of a clear subject line...

My wife's Crockett rifle shoots about 30" to the left at 50 yards if I leave the sights centered on the top flat. I drifted the front sight far to the left, and it could hit the edge of the paper. Drifting the rear sight as far to the right as I was comfortable results in it hitting center. The rifle looks ridiculous though...with a sight hanging out each side. Even the sight picture is baffling. It looks as if the barrel is pointed towards the neighboring target.

Anyone experienced anything like this?

I can't imagine what would cause this. I even ran a straight edge down both sides of the barrel, thinking it could be bent. It appears, at least on the outside, that the barrel is quite straight.

Could this be a crown problem? The rifle is otherwise accurate. I haven't made any effort to work up a load...but 25 grains of 3f is perfect in elevation and prints 1.5" at 50 yards all day.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[tx50cal]

Wow thats a nw one for me. I wonder if it could be the patching hanging on some tool marks at the muzzle crown? Only other thing that I can think of is the bore is off axis or has run out causeing it to shoot left.

 

[mooman76]

If the barrel is straight maybe it's drilled off center. Did you check it also while in the stock? Maybe the stock is causing it to bend some.

 

[Adui]

Probably a stupid question, but is the notch in the rear sight off center??

 

[dledinger]

The crown sure looks good, not that probably does not mean much. Perhaps I should check it for square. Hmmm.

 

[dledinger]

I did check it in the stock. Maybe I'll pull it out tonight and check out of the stock.

 

[dledinger]

Without measuring it, the notch appears pretty well centered.

 

[Squeeze]

I have heard that it it very common for a bore to be drilled at a slight arc. Even if the barrel is straight, and the bore at either end centered, It is common for the drilling to be a bit off a straight line. Most custom makers try to align the arc up and down, so the sights can still adjust and be relatively centered. but on production guns, sometimes it is oriented side to side, and posing the problem you have. the gun could still be a fine shooter. I've never heard of it being to the extreme you describe, but the way I understand it, theres no real worries. Id let it go if you can get groups, BUT, I know people who have corrected similar things by simply removing the barrel and wedging it between tree limbs and trying to tug a slight bend into the barrel the other way. he described it as pulling till his eyesight got blurry, then trying a few shots again . haha Im not sure if id do it myself or not, personally ive never had that problem. but I know it has been corrected before

 

[RedFeather]

Maybe get a straight dowel close to bore size and insert a short section into the barrel so you can see if the bore line is off axis. Lay the barrel on a flat surface on the right hand side and see if the rod rises up. The only other thing I can think of is to de-breech it and measure the edge of the bore to the flats and compare that to the muzzle.

Not sure bending is the solution if the bore is off. You would have to get it so your sights will accommodate a workable range. If it's really off, maybe rebarreling would be the best bet.

 

[M. De Land]

What you probably have is a bore that was bored on a curve or spiral. The ends can be perfectly centered and the bore look like a cork screw. This can be seen when chucked up in a lathe through the spindle and barrel rotated at a slow RPM. Looking through the bore while rotating they will often look like a jump rope.
This can be caused by several things while the blank is being deep hole bored.
1. Lack of proper cutting oil pressure for the depth of cut. It must be increased as the hole deepens to flush out the chips or the bit binds off center.
2. The bit has gotten dull and needs resharpened.
3. The barrel blank has hard spots or inclusions that steer the bit face off center. Mike D.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Couldn't think of a clear subject line...

My wife's Crockett rifle shoots about 30" to the left at 50 yards if I leave the sights centered on the top flat. I drifted the front sight far to the left, and it could hit the edge of the paper. Drifting the rear sight as far to the right as I was comfortable results in it hitting center. The rifle looks ridiculous though...with a sight hanging out each side. Even the sight picture is baffling. It looks as if the barrel is pointed towards the neighboring target.

Anyone experienced anything like this?

I can't imagine what would cause this. I even ran a straight edge down both sides of the barrel, thinking it could be bent. It appears, at least on the outside, that the barrel is quite straight.

Could this be a crown problem? The rifle is otherwise accurate. I haven't made any effort to work up a load...but 25 grains of 3f is perfect in elevation and prints 1.5" at 50 yards all day.

Any input is appreciated.

Is this rifle new? If it is I would send it back!

If not check the front sight to see if it is bent.

I have a Traditions St. Louis Hawken and not liking the plastic sights that they come with I made a front sight.

The problem was that the dovetail for the front sight was filed/ground at an angle so when the sight I made was placed in it it leaned I was having to re-adjust the sights like you were talking to get it to hit center. I originally didn't notice the front sight leaning. It was not until I was trying to figure out what was going on I noticed the lean. I removed the sight thinking it had gotten bent.
Only thing was when I set the sight on a flat surface it was obvious that it was straight up and down. I removed the barrel and laid it on flat surface and put a straight flat piece of metal in the dovetail that stuck out on both sides. When I backed off and looked at the piece of metal it was leaning. Meaning the dovetail was filed/ground incorrectly at the factory!

My solution to the problem was to build an adjustable front sight.

This an allen wrench epoxyed into and old section of a toothbrush I made to keep in my box for adjustments. I have never had to readjust after a final tweaking in a range session after I installed the sight. I then backed each allen screw out one at a time and put a drop of Red Loctite on the treads of the allen screws. I re tightened and made a few shots to double check I had not made any changes in the POI. It has been there every sense!

I made the base thickness slightly thinner than it needed to be and when installed. I then adjusted the sight too what looked like it was standing straight up and down. I took it too the field and after some tuneing I have a back sight and a front sight that is centered, and standing straight up and down!

 

[Rifleman1776]

The most obvious cause is the barrel has run out from drilling making the bore at the muzzle off center.
Look and see if the makers name is visible on any of the flats. The Douglas barrels had the name on the flat with the run out on the down side. Meaning that only elevation was affected.
Take a picture of the muzzle straight on from the front and post here. I'm betting it is off center. If that is the case the only practical fix is a new barrel.

 

[don hepler]

Is it 36 caliber? What patch and ball, and powder combination are you using? Who is shooting it...you or her? Are you shooting off of a solid rest?

 

[George T.]

It sure sounds to me like the bore is at an angle. If it's new you might call and see what they will do. I have actually seen barrels straightened using a tree but I don't want a gun that has had that done.

I had a 22 pistol like that once and centered the sights and sold it at a gun show. I hope you did not get yours there! Geo. T.

 

[dbutch]

1.Mic the barrel walls at the muzzle..any difference?
Is the barrel secure..hows the tang breach fit?.Pins -keys secure.Any bore issues?loose sights
2 bend the barrel ...its not much use the way it is.
3.replace the barrel and move on.
Good luck and please report back on your issue.

 

[M. De Land]

I built a 38-55 one time for a friend of mine and when he got it he said it was very accurate but shot about 6 inches wide of target center at 100 yards I think it was, with the front aperture centered over the barrel and wanted to know what I could do about it?
I didn't have a good answer and gave some suggestions for him to try out but was thinking "I wish all my guns would shoot so close to center with the sights in the middle of the dovetail at that distance"!
The bore was centered in both ends which they usually are now days as they are generally put on centers to set up for cutting barrel flats.
If a bore is crooked and cut on a curve or spiral, a perfectly cut flat crown will not be square with the bore axis. I believe this is the reason crooked but muzzle/breech centered bores shoot wide of sight center. MD

 

[Big John]

Bought a rifle two years ago, was shooting 12in. left at fifty yds. I put a bore light in the barrel and saw the rifling show oval rings instead on perfect circle rings, brought it to the seller, he agreed that the barrel was no good.

 

[gearheart]

My TC 54 is bored off center. My rear sight had to be moved 1/8' to the right to get her to shoot straight. From what I hear it seems to be not so rare a problem as one could wish.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Couldn't think of a clear subject line...

My wife's Crockett rifle shoots about 30" to the left at 50 yards if I leave the sights centered on the top flat. I drifted the front sight far to the left, and it could hit the edge of the paper. Drifting the rear sight as far to the right as I was comfortable results in it hitting center. The rifle looks ridiculous though...with a sight hanging out each side. Even the sight picture is baffling. It looks as if the barrel is pointed towards the neighboring target.

Anyone experienced anything like this?

I can't imagine what would cause this. I even ran a straight edge down both sides of the barrel, thinking it could be bent. It appears, at least on the outside, that the barrel is quite straight.

Could this be a crown problem? The rifle is otherwise accurate. I haven't made any effort to work up a load...but 25 grains of 3f is perfect in elevation and prints 1.5" at 50 yards all day.

Any input is appreciated.

Sounds exactly like my Lyman GPR it was sent back to the factory and determined it was a factory defect with the barrel and they sent me a new one. The end state was the barrel was not bored out straight.

 

[dledinger]

Thank you all for the great replies. I have been reading them all but haven't replied because I am still digesting the reality of having a crooked barrel...blah. Maybe I'll re-barrel it and have a unique Crockett rifle someday...