Single vs Double Triggers?

[JamesT]

A well tuned single trigger is all you need. End of story.
That being said it a depends on the style of rifle you are building. Use what ever is appropriate for that school and you will be fine. Any trigger arrangement can be well executed and properly tuned.
I don't have a problem with any style.
I happen to love southern rifles. Looking at a beautiful Unicoi Co. East TN rifle with one trigger would be like looking at a rabbit with one ear. Just something queer about it.
James

 

[Okie Hog]

Never cared for double triggers.

 

[pamtnman]

This is probably time for @pamtnman to give Davil Lock at the Log Cabin Shop a call to see if they can do service on the triggers and possibly the lock. Something is just not right with your triggers and lock.

http://www.redaviscompany.com/

Good advice. No doubt the trigger is not working right. Taking the gun to Brad Emig, who lives close to me.

 

[pamtnman]

Maybe Brad Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading in Hallam, York county PA. He does excellent work, but I'd expect a long wait.

Yes. That’s who is now closest to me. A forty minute highway drive. Bill Slusser used to be half an hour away, and was my go-to flintlock guy, but he moved to Kentucky. Brad Emig has done work for me before. Very talented man, committed to the flintlock community.

 

[jmull4609]

 

[Jedidiah]

Yes. That’s who is now closest to me. A forty minute highway drive. Bill Slusser used to be half an hour away, and was my go-to flintlock guy, but he moved to Kentucky. Brad Emig has done work for me before. Very talented man, committed to the flintlock community.

Brad Emig built my 20 gauge Fowler 22 yrs ago!! He did a beautiful job!

 

[Red Owl]

Seems like we are talking about a single trigger and a single set trigger. I ran across a diary of one of the mountain men, they were attacked by NDN's and they had their rifles resting against tree trunks and accidently grab each other's rifle. One fired (regular trigger) but the other didn't as it was a single set trigger that had to be pushed forward to set and the other guy didn't realize it. In any event, single set triggers were used. So not all triggers were double set.

 

[pamtnman]

Seems like we are talking about a single trigger and a single set trigger. I ran across a diary of one of the mountain men, they were attacked by NDN's and they had their rifles resting against tree trunks and accidently grab each other's rifle. One fired (regular trigger) but the other didn't as it was a single set trigger that had to be pushed forward to set and the other guy didn't realize it. In any event, single set triggers were used. So not all triggers were double set.

This gun has RE Davis double set triggers. The front trigger can ***in theory*** be pulled backwards to fire the gun without having been set by the rear set trigger. However, a gigantic amount of pull is required to actually actuate this front trigger, so that in reality it alone is not a practical option. This problem is not new but it is significantly worse now than in prior years. Historically, 1770s flintlocks had both single and double triggers, and as I understand the history, occasionally single triggers could be set to a 1/2 to 1 pound pull by being pushed forward, but could otherwise be used in the 2-4 pound pull range. Thankfully Brad Emig is in today and will soon take possession of this unhappy situation. Note: This rifle was assembled by someone new to gunbuilding who oversold his inexperience, and thus every component either has required significant intervention by a master gunsmith or is now in line for open heart surgery and possibly replacement. The only original thing done correctly was the inletting and metal-to-wood fit. Then again, it was a pre-carved stock….Thanks for all your excellent advice and insights, men.

 

[Jedidiah]

This gun has RE Davis double set triggers. The front trigger can ***in theory*** be pulled backwards to fire the gun without having been set by the rear set trigger. However, a gigantic amount of pull is required to actually actuate this front trigger, so that in reality it alone is not a practical option. This problem is not new but it is significantly worse now than in prior years. Historically, 1770s flintlocks had both single and double triggers, and as I understand the history, occasionally single triggers could be set to a 1/2 to 1 pound pull by being pushed forward, but could otherwise be used in the 2-4 pound pull range. Thankfully Brad Emig is in today and will soon take possession of this unhappy situation. Note: This rifle was assembled by someone new to gunbuilding who oversold his inexperience, and thus every component either has required significant intervention by a master gunsmith or is now in line for open heart surgery and possibly replacement. The only original thing done correctly was the inletting and metal-to-wood fit. Then again, it was a pre-carved stock….Thanks for all your excellent advice and insights, men.

You are in good hands with Brad Emig! Let us know what he says about the trigger. I own two GPR's and on one the triggers work as they should both in set mode and just pulling the forward trigger. In the other, I have to set the trigger to get it to work??? Go figure? So, I am very interested in wht you find out!

 

[pamtnman]

You are in good hands with Brad Emig! Let us know what he says about the trigger. I own two GPR's and on one the triggers work as they should both in set mode and just pulling the forward trigger. In the other, I have to set the trigger to get it to work??? Go figure? So, I am very interested in wht you find out!

As I recall from researching double set triggers a while ago, when my first flintlock was being built, some are made to be used only as set triggers, and some are made so the front trigger can be used alone, set or not set. And similarly, most single triggers are meant to be pulled and cannot be set, but some single triggers can be set by being pushed forward. If you built the gun from scratch or as a kit, then hopefully you know what was installed in it. On this particular gun, I wanted a “double knife trigger,” which allows the front trigger to fire the gun either set or not set. However, this particular trigger on this individual gun is experiencing technical difficulties. Could be anything causing it. We will find out, and I promise to report back, so hopefully others can learn something from my experience. One thing I can recommend: Don’t hire an inexperienced guy to build you a flintlock. The initial cost savings is offset by the subsequent costs incurred by having true gunsmiths fix the lock, trigger, sights etc that were installed incorrectly. Or even deliberately mangled in an attempt to do it “right.”
Which reminds me of a photo shared by double gunsmith Dewey Vicknair here in central PA. It was a striker bushing whose two turn holes had been stripped by an inexperienced or simply stupid “gunsmith” attempting to remove the bushing without first removing the screw that held it in place from inside the action. The gun this occurred with was worth more than the vehicle driven by the “gunsmith” and thus, OEM replacement parts were either nonexistent or incredibly expensive. Dewey ended up turning his own replacement bushings. Lesson is: Stay far far away from inexperienced gunsmiths and gun builders.

 

[jmull4609]

This gun has RE Davis double set triggers. The front trigger can ***in theory*** be pulled backwards to fire the gun without having been set by the rear set trigger. However, a gigantic amount of pull is required to actually actuate this front trigger, so that in reality it alone is not a practical option. This problem is not new but it is significantly worse now than in prior years. Historically, 1770s flintlocks had both single and double triggers, and as I understand the history, occasionally single triggers could be set to a 1/2 to 1 pound pull by being pushed forward, but could otherwise be used in the 2-4 pound pull range. Thankfully Brad Emig is in today and will soon take possession of this unhappy situation. Note: This rifle was assembled by someone new to gunbuilding who oversold his inexperience, and thus every component either has required significant intervention by a master gunsmith or is now in line for open heart surgery and possibly replacement. The only original thing done correctly was the inletting and metal-to-wood fit. Then again, it was a pre-carved stock….Thanks for all your excellent advice and insights, men.

My TC Hawken, double-set triggers, will fire unset, with the front trigger, and is only 6.5 lb pull

 

[pamtnman]

I’m happy for you! That’s the beauty of individual preference. People have different physiques, different physical options and limitations. Bigger or smaller hands and fingers, etc What works for you and what works for me might be different, but they both work. Hope you kill a pile of deer

 

[Grenadier1758]

@pamtnman, be sure to take the entire rifle to Brad. He needs to see the interaction of all the parts to get the rifle to work.

 

[Red Owl]

Firing a double set trigger without setting the trigger- that's the nature of the thing. I think (just a guess) that it was so designed for an emergency- point blank situation- a grizzly bear charges out of nowhere. you have to point and shoot.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Firing a double set trigger without setting the trigger- that's the nature of the thing. I think (just a guess) that it was so designed for an emergency- point blank situation- a grizzly bear charges out of nowhere. you have to point and shoot.

There’s a lot on this double trigger thing, I have never made or imported one My double rifles all single smooth triggers however my two Swiss unmentionable 7.5-53 target trifles have exceedingly good set triggers inside they are very finely made. Only removed them once so sorry no photos. Just thought I would comment. Yes on my Bess locks the triggers are heavy but in the hight of battle it’s probably preferable If you can get double made to the quality of the Swiss you cannot go far wrong Regards wet and cold west London

 

[SciAggie]

I love the look and nostalgia/romance of the set triggers. They just “look right” on most muzzleloaders.
Then there is the practical aspect. I do like a nice set trigger on a target rifle - although the BPCR I have won the most with has a crisp single trigger. For hunting rifles I rarely bother with the set trigger. I prefer a single trigger or just do not set the trigger.

 

[SOLANCO]

I love the look and nostalgia/romance of the set triggers. They just “look right” on most muzzleloaders.
Then there is the practical aspect. I do like a nice set trigger on a target rifle - although the BPCR I have won the most with has a crisp single trigger. For hunting rifles I rarely bother with the set trigger. I prefer a single trigger or just do not set the trigger.

A live target versus a paper target is a whole different dynamic.

 

[pamtnman]

@pamtnman, be sure to take the entire rifle to Brad. He needs to see the interaction of all the parts to get the rifle to work.

Due to intense frustration, I had considered smashing this thing into various pieces, and what a satisfying feeling it would be, but the wood is just too nice. So the entire thing goes to Emig. Let him hate it productively

 

[Red Owl]

I think originally it was about a 50/50 mix on set versus simple triggers.