Six shooter C&B

[necchi]

So, do as you please. I'm toting six.

Thank you Gene for starting this thread.
It's allowed several to share about their personal experience and tests.
I do agree with you, all this safety manure about hammer down on an empty cylinder in a six shooter is a bunch of hoowie! There's not going to be a single problem ever. They never did it why should we!

But then I think of my own life and the times I carry,,
,, know what?
I've never needed all six rounds,, ever.

But your right,, I'll load 6,, for bear.
(just in-case)

 

[rodwha]

My woods carry piece is my ROA. It fits in an Oklahoma Leather holster meant for a NMA/1860 and it took a lot to stretch it to fit as it does (tightly). No way that cylinder is turning from a stick or somesuch. And though I’ve not had to track a hog down as they’ve not it a step beyond where they were shot I’d certainly prefer to have what I can have not knowing what might happen, especially as most people who’ve hunted hogs know the time begins at dusk in general.

My typical piece of as a 1911 loaded with 230 grn +P’s and there were 8 because I could add one more. Seems prudent to be over armed to me when something might want to fight back. Maybe some are more capable and don’t need but the one down the barrel. I’d like to sit around with someone that capable and see what I might learn. However I’d still want something that holds a few “just in case things don’t work out so well” rounds. So I wouldn’t have a single shot regardless I suppose...

 

[rodwha]

Were there no accidental discharges, as you stated, back then using the safety mechanisms? I’ve certainly not cared enough to exhaust any reasonable searches, but I’ve not seen any. No doubt there was some sort of accident in those 40-something years. Nothing was 100% until lawyers were involved, right?

And Gene actually might find himself dealing with bear, and possibly problems ones if he’s around the AT, where they’ve been known to target backpackers knowing they carry food. Granted they don’t generally attack them per se. Guess that is all subjective to what happened, how, and one might process that I suppose.

I have bear spray and a thick wooden walking stick, along with other stuff, but these will generally handle a typical black bear ordeal, and I’m not afraid to shoot one but prefer to handle it differently if I can. I’ve not been put in this situation as we don’t have many bears in TX, but that’s how I intend to handle the situation if it arises, and assuming it’s typical.

I carry 6 in mine. The safety is now solid on my Pietta NMA after I modified the hammer nose to fit the slots, and always was on my ROA. Maybe I just don’t push through thick brush with a holster so loose it allows my pistol to move around as some of you apparently do. I can turn my ROA upside down in the holster and it won’t fall. It’s tight.

 

[Gene L]

I didn't state there were no accidental discharges. I'm sure there were. As for protection against bear or hostile humans, I'll carry something more potent than a .36 Navy.

As Zonie posted, a C&B revolver isn't the best choice for self protection.

 

[rodwha]

You most certainly did not. I was replying to necchi.

And far better choices for sure to be had than a cap n ball for bears and nefarious people.

 

[M. De Land]

The only percussion revolver I would tackle a bear with,black or brown would be a modern Walker with wide flat nose bullets of about 250 grains.
I've read that the old timers used to kill the grizzly's of California with Walkers and round ball loads from a tree stand.
I killed about a 400 lbs.black bear boar last fall that came in on us while cutting up a caribou bull I had killed. My pardner and I had foolishly left our rifles in camp and the bear was intent on taking out kill.
I was using Elmer Kieths load in a 4 inch un mention-able and the first 250 grain when into his chest, missed the shoulder joint on the way in and the spine when it went out his back.
He didn't even flinch and covered the 21 yards to us in the time it took to shoot once, recover from recoil and hammer him again at about ten feet as he flashed me headed straight for my pardner Chris. To say a bear in High gear is fast is a gross understatement. It was more like a black blur.
The second shot, a quick double action just before he closed on Chris cut his spine and folded him up. Both bullets went completely through.
Things were a bit tense there for a second or two and the grace of God saved two ole coots, who should have know better than to leave the rifles in camp, from getting mauled miles from any help.

 

[M. De Land]

If you click on the picture and then the spy glass Icon it should blow up so it can be seen better.
Here was the caribou bull before butchering:

We were pretty loaded for the trip out with two bulls and the bear hide, skull and meat.

 

[M. De Land]

My best bull to date: Same bull side shot.

I believe a Walker loaded as I described at the beginning would have produced the same result with equally placed shots from the same ranges.

 

[crockett]

This issue seems to come up all the time and will not go away. Folks want to put the revolver through a torture test to see if they can "make" it fire. Now consider a side by side shotgun with a slide safety. The slide moves a tab of metal forward so the sear can raise in back and Teeder-todder down in front BUT I suppose if you hammered on the trigger you might be able to deform the innards enough to fire the gun- hence, unsafe.
First, no one is saying a hammer should be lowered on a live cap, we are talking about the hammer lowered on a pin between the caps. You therefore have to pull the hammer back, by accident, to rotate the cylinder enough to bring the next chamber under the hammer. This is done by the hand and you pretty much have to move the hammer back to full cock in order for the hand to move high enough to bring the next chamber into line under the hammer.
I've tried to do this on a holstered gun. My guns fit tight enough into the holster that you can't really rotate the cylinder while the gun is in the holster. I tried to bear the hammer against a door jam and draw the hammer back while forcing it against the jam, the curvature of the hammer tends to slide off the jam before I can do this.
So...never say never. Don't go outside if you are afraid of being hit by lightning - but off hand ON A PERCUSSION REVOLVER WITH PINS it seems very unlikely that a holstered gun loaded with 6 chambers will ever be hit in such a manner as to accidentally discharge the gun.
The Colt 1911 faces similar issues, folks don't like to carry it locked and cocked however with the grip safety locked and cocked guns have been dropped off buildings and never discharged.
To the best of my knowledge, this load 5 issue first came around with the 1873 Peacemaker that fired cartridges. During the civil war, all packets of ammunition for percussion guns had 6 combustible cartridges. I myself have not read of any accounts of percussion revolvers accidentally discharging as feared by some.

 

[FishDFly]

My typical piece of as a 1911 loaded with 230 grn +P’s and there were 8 because I could add one more. Seems prudent to be over armed to me when something might want to fight back.

Kind of modern is it not???

 

[rodwha]

Indeed. And that was before I found myself fascinated with BP arms.

And my ROA nearly duplicates this, though I intend to modify my designs a little which should increase the weight just a little. But I’m also considering sending it on a trip to Clements for a few modifications, one being to modify the chambers. As it is now it holds between that of a typical .44 and a Dragoon (about 43-45 grns of 3F Olde E).

 

[necchi]

I carry 6 in mine.

So do I.

Things were a bit tense there for a second or two and,,

Great story, I have No Reason to Doubt it as Gospel Truth.
You should see what a 250 black bear does when fatally stuck with an arrow he didn't know was coming!!
That was the first and last time I used a ground blind for bear

 

[rodwha]

Hmmm... That comment sure sounded fecitious. It sounded much more like you weren’t agreeing at all.

 

[necchi]

typed words/keyboard have sound?
It's all good.
I have to admit I don't deal with stupid well anymore and can sometimes/many times "sound" (with the internet keyboard sound) different then my intent.

Go Back to the original post,, hitting the hammer of a revolver while it sit's on a loaded cylinder with a hand held hammer in attempt to cause the revolver to fire,,
,,notice that it didn't fire,,
,,then say detonation doesn't happen with impact on a loaded cylinder there-fore,,,,
Come`on,, :idunno:

I already Thanked Gene L for his starting this topic.
I load 6.

 

[rodwha]

I totally agree with you there.

I wouldn’t use a hammer on my guns, even a rubber mallet.

 

[M. De Land]

I had my back toward down stream and Chris had just stopped holding a leg while I gutted, to get as drink from his canteen and was facing me. All of a sudden his eyes got big and he said LOOK as he pointed behind and down stream of me. Here come the bear about 150 yards away. I told him to get down and I reclined along side the caribou on my left elbow and used the side of my knee for a rest. I told Chris to hold still and when the bear came out of the grass I would shoot him. I don't think he sorted me out from the caribou carcass because at the shot he came straight at Chris. When about ten feet away, Chris threw his canteen at the bear just about the same time I let go with shot #2.
I could see they were close together and was wondering if I could get a shot in before he was on my pardner. I had just a bit of space to make the shot then it would have been impossible to shoot into the fur-ball of man and bear mixing it up, if he lingered.
Neither of us is sure to this day if it was a charge or the bear just making a get away over the top of Chris. Neither would have been much fun.
This is my sixth black bear and none of the others have ever come at me so it was a new experience.

 

[Gene L]

typed words/keyboard have sound?
It's all good.
I have to admit I don't deal with stupid well anymore and can sometimes/many times "sound" (with the internet keyboard sound) different then my intent.

Go Back to the original post,, hitting the hammer of a revolver while it sit's on a loaded cylinder with a hand held hammer in attempt to cause the revolver to fire,,
,,notice that it didn't fire,,
,,then say detonation doesn't happen with impact on a loaded cylinder there-fore,,,,
Come`on,, :idunno:

I already Thanked Gene L for his starting this topic.
I load 6.

I actually think that Zonie got a cap to detonate by rapping the hammer smartly on a seated cap with a a ball peen hammer.

 

[SDSmlf]

Happen to have my camera set up for something else, but thought, hey, why not duplicate Zonie's and Gene L's tests with the mallet, and try and catch it on film? Pistol with cap on a nipple. Hammer down on the cap. One leather mallet. One quick rap with the mallet and BOOM. We have ignition........ got it first try.

Any hammer down on a loaded percussion cylinder questions?

Now I have a pistol to clean.

This thread continues to puzzle me. We preach safety all the time. The 'accepted practice' for six shooters without a transfer bar type device as far as I know is to keep your hammer down on an empty chamber. Period. Some will ignore this rule and never pay a price. Some unfortunate unsuspecting soul will ultimately pay a price for not following the 'accepted practice' for some perfect storm reason. Would hate to think that because 'experts' on this forum said it was OK, is why they did it.

Is it time to open the blowing down the muzzle discussion? How could someone not know they had a hang fire???? Outlawed on every range I visit, just as loading six in any competition is. If you must do it, just don't discuss how silly it is not to do it. We will read about the sad situation if something goes wrong.

The firearms community gets enough bad publicity without going out of their way to find things for others to point out. If you are truly in a situation which requires you to have six rounds ready to go, get yourself something with a modern safety feature (such as a transfer bar) and more horsepower than a cap and ball pistol could possible provide. Just one person's opinion.....

 

[rodwha]

I suppose what I don’t get is that by loading just 5 and resting it on the empty, or loading 6 and using the designed safety it will still do the exact same thing if something were to happen to allow for a charged chamber to be set off. So unless one doesn’t have any sort of between the chambers safety there’s really not much point in doing such. The only way for that to work would be to leave two empty chambers.

 

[rodwha]

I have no clue, but figured CASS has the load 5 rule because there could be an accidental discharge while pulling the hammer back to rotate the cylinder to a safety setting. I’m always cautious and slightly nervous when doing this just because the slip of the thumb could create an issue, even if it’s just a hole in the bed and floor, followed by the cursing from SWMBO, and possibly the smoke detector going off.