Slow Ignition

[Stumpkiller]

Hi Ka Boom,

You shouldn't have to remove your barrel to remove the vent liner. You will have to remove the lock, but shouldn't have to pull the barrell.

--------------------------------
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

I've only owned two flinters with removable vents (that didn't require destroying them in the process with an eze-out) and of my two custom flinters: one was drilled straight into the barrel with no liner and the other is filed flush and there is no way to replace it if removed.

Kit Ravenshear once told me "a vent liner is a repair item". :winking:

 

Close inspection will show the outer edge of the hex well has a radius on it leading in to the hex well itself, and at the bottom of the hex well, there's another bevel leading to the touch hole.

Of course, close inspection of any allen head set screw shows these exact same features :hmm:. Who'dda thunk that the designers of set screws were so into muzzleloading that they would design them with flintlock ignition speed in mind.

 

[Tumblernotch]

If you are used to just putting powder in the bottom of your pan, you probably now have a significant air gap between the powder and the actual touchhole. Try shaking some of that powder into the Allen hole so that the powder is closer to the touchhole. A guy in our club had the same problem. We told him that he just needed to get the powder a little closer to the real hole. He did and that made a BIG difference.

 

[montanadan]

Roundball,a gentlemen named Larry Pletch timed all these vents.He published this in the Feb. 2000 Muzzle Blasts.,most of the differences were in mili-seconds,however his results indicated that a Jim Chambers vent with a no. 50 drill bit(.070) with an outside cone added would be the fastest.Sounds Like what Birddog 6 has been saying ,nice buck by the way..respectfully montanadan

 

[roundball]

Roundball,a gentlemen named Larry Pletch timed all these vents.He published this in the Feb. 2000 Muzzle Blasts.,most of the differences were in mili-seconds,however his results indicated that a Jim Chambers vent with a no. 50 drill bit(.070) with an outside cone added would be the fastest.Sounds Like what Birddog 6 has been saying ,nice buck by the way..respectfully montanadan

Yes, familiar with the article...and the design of all hex wrench liners are not created equal...the one somebody makes for TC are designed to provide that outside cone effect like Biddog6's modification to the chambers liner.

If you look at one from GM, it's nothing more than a hex set screw with a hole drilled through it...but whoever designed & makes the one that TC recently cut into production actually has a radius / bevel all around the outside egde, then another one at the bottom of the hex well leading into the touch hole...ie: to provide that external cone effect...plus, they have a large .078" touchhole (an eyelash smaller than 5/64")...very fast liners indeed.

It always interests me how protective we as human beings become, of a comfort level we've arrived at and plateaued at for years, when somethiung new and different comes along that provides equal performance to something that had previously been the only game in town.

As you said, the test's measurements literally differed only in milliseconds, however some would say they can tell that difference...yet often these same people decide to prime with 3F instead of 4F, saying the difference is only in milliseconds and claim that a person can't tell the difference...go figure...we humans are a strange lot, eh?
:thumbsup:

Then you add in the ignition speed benefits of a patent breech and it's about like shooting a .30-30
:thumbsup:

 

It always interests me how protective we as human beings become, of a comfort level we've arrived at and plateaued at for years, when somethiung new and different comes along that provides equal performance to something that had previously been the only game in town.

Do you mean like when someone suggests useing lead rather than leather for a flint wrap or cut agates rather than BEF's??. Perhaps some people refuse to try something new because they feel that what they're useing is how it was done "in the day" and therefore is "the real deal" :hmm: . You may have a point there. Yes, people certainly ARE a funny animal.

 

[TN.Frank]

My Cumberland Fowler from Early Rustic Arms is a hole in the barrel, no insert, and I notice a lot more delay between it and guns that I've shot with inserts. I think it's because the insert can be cone shaped on the inside so the flash has a lot less hole to go thru to get to powder. I may add an insert to this gun at a later date. Not really sure yet.

 

[Rebel]

Pull the brrechplug and cone the inside. Use a small ball grinding tip on a Dremel and just be careful not to go Too deep. Should give the same effect.JMO

 

[gcebulka]

I liked the Hexed liner for ease of removal, but
looks like I'll be using the slotted liner if I
can't find a cure for the Hexed.

Would 3F for a priming powder make any difference
for better or worst?

I have a hex liner in my T/C. I was having all kinds of problems with my ignition. Here is what I tried that worked for me. By worke for me, I mean that I get a fast ignition and no hangfires.
1) Remove clean the vent liner well when you do the end of day cleaning, remove the line and get it bright and shiny)
2) I use 4f in the pan and I prime to the outside, 1/3 of the pan (away from the liner). However, 3f should work just as well.
3) During my range sessions, I use a vent pick to clean out crud that may have collected outside well of the liner. A ven brush is also helpful.

 

[Birddog6]

IMHO, Unless you have shot ALL of the liners in the Same Gun with the Same Lock & Same Powder & etc., how can you truthfully say one is faster than the other ?

You shoot only T/C's ? you haven't shot the others, you don't know. You may know that the new liner is faster than the old one, but comparing to other liners, you really don't know unless you have tried all of them.

You shoot only custom rifles, but have not tried the T/C liner in one ? you cannot say either cause you don't know.

You shoot Lymans & have not used a T/C or Chambers liner in that rifle ? you don't know either.

The Test that was in Muzzleblasts ? if it didn't try the new T/C liner it is no longer a accurate report either. It may have been good then, but things change & if other liners have come to view, the test is no longer valid.

 

[Slowpoke]

BD,
Please refrain from inserting logic and fact into the conversation, it interferes with our own personal biases. :rotf:

SP

 

[roundball]

Roundball,

Answer to ALL of your questions.

Basic Physics.

We can agree to disagree, but these are the facts, at least as I see them.
Your mileage may vary. :v

I will use nothing but a Chamber's White Lightnin liner in any gun I build for myself or others.
They just work..... every time. No flashes in the pan, no failures to fire, no hang fires. :thumbsup:

And yes.... Basic Physics bears that out.

IMHO

Except that it's all feel good anecdotal comments...and if you want to tell yourself that your liner is best, by all means tell yourself that.....just don't come wading in here like you're coming down off the mountain to set us all free with your personal airs of what is best across the board for everybody regardless of different firearms, different conditions, different products, etc... :v


Birddog6 summed it all up objectively...
:thumbsup:

 

[Flintandsteel]

Roundball,

I guess both of us are guilty of that.

One thing does not change however, the closer you get the main charge to the prime, the faster the main charge will ignite. No matter how you get it done.
That is all I'm saying.
My method of choice ..... the White Lightning liner.

Load, prime, and shoot. It works for me. :blah:

 

[TN.Frank]

Of course you can always just learn to follow through with your shots, then it doesn't matter if there's a slight delay. :winking:

 

[Pork Chop]

Now there you go again...clouding the issue with facts. You ought to know better than that!

 

Roundball,You Know It Is Not Your Liner That Gives You Fast Iginition,Its Those 3/4 Inch Oversized Flints You Use.. :blah:

 

[walley]

Of course you can always just learn to follow through with your shots, then it doesn't matter if there's a slight delay. :winking:

I agree TN, when I first shot this rifle with the
slotted vent it was a Spit/Boom effect. With the Hexed
liner it's more of a Clack/Whooosh/KaBoom. A guys
nerves can only stand so much. :shocked2:

 

[Birddog6]

If you want to try a modified vent liner, send me one & I will drill & cone it for you & mail it back. You will be amazed at the difference it will make in the ignition timing........... :grin:

 

[roundball]

Roundball,You Know It Is Not Your Liner That Gives You Fast Iginition,Its Those 3/4 Inch Oversized Flints You Use.. :blah:

Ain't life grand !

 

[walley]

If you want to try a modified vent liner, send me one & I will drill & cone it for you & mail it back. You will be amazed at the difference it will make in the ignition timing........... :grin:

Thanks Birddog6, I'll take your offer into
consideration, but before putting you to any trouble.
I'll try a few of the suggestions through out the
thread and see what comes of them. I'll let you know
how it comes out.
Much obliged, :thumbsup: