Smacking the lock

[Sharpie44]

Or next to it I should say. No one told me to do this but for some reason I got in the habit of turning the rifle on its side and giving it a good smack before cocking and firing it.

I guess I started doing it just to get a little 4f powder in the hole. It nearly always goes off so at least it dusn't hurt to do it as long as I remember to clean out the hole with a paper clip every few shots.

Duse anyone else do this or is this just showing my lack of knowledge on these things.

 

[Otter]

Side of the lock? . . . no
Side of the barrel? . . . yes

My objective is to get as much of the powder as possible down before inserting patch and ball. Can't prove scientifically that it does what I hope it does, it's just a habit I picked up a long, long ago.

 

[BrownBear]

I do it before seating the ball. And it helps on some cappers and not others. Certain of my rifles with drum bolsters virtually require it, while those with patent breeches never do.

 

[david50]

like Otter i always smack the side of the barrel,just to get the powder settled good before ramming down the patch and ball. just a habbit,dont know that it has any benifit.

 

[BrownBear]

On mine with drum bolsters, smacking the side of the lock (actually just above the lock) shifts some powder into the bolster, which I suspect is further shifted as I seat the ball. With a couple of rifles in particular, that results in 100% ignition, while not doing it is an almost sure fire guarantee of a misfire after firing half a dozen shots---- with or without bore swabbing. Bore swabbing doesn't take care of fouling buildup back in the breech/bolster area, and apparently the extra thump helps the powder get past and within reach of the flame.

All supposition, but there aint a theory in any book that will make me stop doing what works.

 

[Billnpatti]

If you are trying to get some of your pan powder to go into the touch hole, you are headed in the wrong direction. :nono: You do not want any powder in your touch hole. It will obstruct the flame from the pan and delay the igniton. Some referto it as a "fuse effect" Keep the touch hole clear and do not let the pan powder cover the touch hole. I read in one of the recent copies of Muzzle Blasts where one of the members did a test to determine if it made any difference where the primer powder was located in the pan. He determined that as long as the powder did not obstruct the hole and the hole had none of the charge powder in it, the difference was minimal. However, he did get ever so slightly better ignition when the pan powder was located next to,but not covering, the touch hole.

I, too, hit the side of my rifle after I have placed the powder in the bore. I do this to settle the charge on the breach. When doing this, I have a touch hole pick in the touch hole to keep it from getting powder in it. After seating the ball, I pick up my rifle, remove the pick from the hole and charge the pan. If, as sometimes happens,the pan charge is in a little pile in the pan, I will gently strike the side of the rifle to distribute the powder more evenly in the pan.

The only other thing I strike with the heel of my hand when I am shooting is my forehead when I miss a shot. Now I have developed this flat spot on my forehead. :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Duse anyone else do this or is this just showing my lack of knowledge on these things

Nope...

 

[musketman]

Or next to it I should say. No one told me to do this but for some reason I got in the habit of turning the rifle on its side and giving it a good smack before cocking and firing it.

I guess I started doing it just to get a little 4f powder in the hole. It nearly always goes off so at least it dusn't hurt to do it as long as I remember to clean out the hole with a paper clip every few shots.

Duse anyone else do this or is this just showing my lack of knowledge on these things.

I would like to point out that if you do thump on the side of a flintlock's lock, there is a chance you could cut your palm or fingers with the flint.

There's nothing like a flint cut to open one's eyes to just how sharp those things really are.

 

[Sharpie44]

well I don't actually hit the lock just near it.

 

[agill]

I tap the sideplate with my palm before starting the ball just to level the powder. I don't know if it helps any.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I give my rifle a tap or two on the sideplate before starting the ball. It is a habit. I don't know if it really helps settle the powder, because I don't look. But I think it does. I just stay consistent in my loading steps. I am satified with it.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

----snipped---- You do not want any powder in your touch hole. It will obstruct the flame from the pan and delay the igniton. Some referto it as a "fuse effect" Keep the touch hole clear and do not let the pan powder cover the touch hole. I read in one of the recent copies of Muzzle Blasts where one of the members did a test to determine if it made any difference where the primer powder was located in the pan. He determined that as long as the powder did not obstruct the hole and the hole had none of the charge powder in it, the difference was minimal. However, he did get ever so slightly better ignition when the pan powder was located next to, but not covering, the touch hole. --- snipped ---

I'm the member who did the article in MB about timing vent locations and where to place the prime. I interpret my data a little differently that you did.

1. The ignition when the priming powder was placed next to the vent was not "ever so slightly better" - it was 17-23% better. There was a significant increase in speed.

2. The purpose of the experiment originally was to find out if the vent location (low to high) had an affect on ignition speeds. After finding out that priming close to the vent was faster, I did the low vent vs high vent thing. The result was:

low vent ---- .038
level vent -- .036
high vent --- .037
(average of 15 trials)

I consider the results here to be statistically insignificant. However, the part you missed was that in ALL the low vent trials, the vent was so low that the priming powder covered the vent EVERY time. I did not try to get priming powder into the vent, but prime did cover the hole.

The following paragraphs are from my web site:

The idea to bank powder away from the vent to improve flint performance is flawed thinking. In every test I conducted, the banked away trials came in last. Percentages varied, but banking the powder away was always slower. I found no evidence to support the old "bank the prime away from the vent." (In the low vent test, banking powder away was 17% slower; in the high vent test, banking powder away was 23% slower.)

The idea that one should not cover the vent with priming powder because of having to burn through the vent instead of flashing through seems equally flawed. While I did not try to fill the vent, covering the vent did not cause slower times. The closer I could get priming to the vent, the faster and more consistent the results. In fact the consistency I found in positioning the priming powder close to the vent occured at all vent positions - low, level, and high.

Covering the low vent with priming was faster than banking the powder away. In the low vent trials banked away was .046 compared to .038 when priming close and covering the vent.


Regards,
Pletch

 

[mykeal]

As a general rule I do not tap the gun to settle the powder. It seems to me that simply seating the patched ball has the effect of consolidating any loose powder granules in the breech. If the patched ball does not fit tightly enough to wipe the bore clean it certainly won't shoot well.

And I very rarely have an FTF.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The problem with LOW Vents-where its right down at the bottom of the pan is that HEAT rises! Its heat, not flame that ignites the main charge.

For those reasons, the only way to get a LOW VENT flintlock action to fire quickly is to put some priming powder right at the MOUTH of the VENT HOLE, but not in it.

With the NOCK patent breech style guns, some have an adequately sized Flash Channel from the TH to the back of the powder chamber, while others don't. If the shooter fails to flush that channel with alcohol to remove oil and congealed grease and debris before taking it to the range or field, he takes the chance that the flash channel will be obstructed, and the HEAT from the flash pan will not get to the powder chamber.

During normal Loading procedure. Air is trapped in front of the PRB, and is pushed through the powder charge, taking small " fines" of powder through the small hole in the back of the powder chamber in the breech plug, and into the flash channel. The air also forces some crud, and dried debris out of the TH in the process. You should be able to both SEE, and HEAR the air escaping out the TH when you are driving the PRB down onto the powder.

It was our practice on the club range that if the shooter, or the men standing on either side of him did NOT see or hear( its a loud hissing sound) air escaping the Touch Hole(TH), We stopped the shooter, and attempted to use a nipple pick to clear the flash hole to get the gun to discharge. Usually, the load was NOT fired at the target, but merely fired into the backstop under the Range officer's supervision. Sometimes, priming powder had to be forced into the flash channel to provide a "slow-fire" but necessary fire to ignite the main charge. Sometimes, the problem was that the shooter got too much oil or water into his gun cleaning it, didn't even know he had a smaller powder chamber, and didn't dry it out. That fouled the powder in the chamber, so that several successive attempts with flash powder stuffed into the flash channel were needed to dry the powder in the powder chamber, so that the rest of the powder would ignite. I usually kept a .22 cal. and a .30 cal. Bore brush in my range box, so that we could clean and dry the powder chambers on these guns for the shooters, to get them back in action.

One does NOT have to OWN a T/C rifle, or CVA, or any of the other " Nock" patent breech guns to be familiar with their merits and limitations. If the guns are cleaned and maintained properly, they are fine shooters. IF not, problems arise. I do not hesitate to recommend shooters look at the T/C and Lyman products if that is what they want in the style of their gun. I do caution them about keeping that powder chamber, and flash channel clean, however. :hmm: :shocked2: :hatsoff:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

1/2 grain swiss null B

 

[oldarmy]

It's the heat from the prime that ignites the main charge..
You need a clear passage from the vent hole to the main charge and a HOT PRIME.
I put my vent holes 1/16 to 1/8 above the pan and centered, because that's what I learned from this forum.
NULLB burns like hell.. hot and fast :thumbsup:
Using it,I have never had trouble with the "woosh-bang"
As long as every thing else is correct. :hmm:

 

[crazybear22]

I do this when I drop the powder in the tube on perc. it moves some powder into the nipple area

 

[Zonie]

Paul said: "The problem with LOW Vents-where its right down at the bottom of the pan is that HEAT rises! Its heat, not flame that ignites the main charge..."
___________
Paul. If your contention is that the flame is rising and because of this the vent hole must be higher, I must disagree with you.

The reason "heat rises" is because the hot air in the flame being less dense is displaced by the heavier, cooler air around it.
At most (and this condition could never exist) the differences could not exceed slightly less than 15 pounds per square inch. Much to small to be a factor in the violent area of an exploding pile of black powder.

Looking at the neat photo that Pletch posted one can see that the high pressures created by the exploding powder sends the fireball of flame completely thru the barrel if there is nothing in the road to stop it.
Yes, it is the heat that ignites the powder but it is the flame that is the "heat".

Long after this violent condition has ended the effects of the hot air being displaced by cooler air does exist so if we are talking about some period of time long after the ball has left the muzzle, you are correct.

At least, that's the way I see it. :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

A couple of years ago, now, someone on this forum corrected me about the heat vs. flame issue. Apparently someone put a glass or plastic barrier at the mouth of the vent, and the heat from the powder was still able to ignite the powder. I have always believed- as I have observed-- that the flame enters the barrel through the vent hole as it seeks to use up the available air in that location. That is why using a vent pick to create a hole in the main charge works to speed barrel ignition speed of the main charge. The more granules that are ignited by that pan flash, the faster all the powder in the barrel ignites. I describe the process as a series of fuses all lit at once, connected to each other by contact.

At the final thought, it may be that we are discussing only symantics. I think we both agree on how ignition occurs. I know that Larry Pletcher and I do. :hmm:

I prefer that the touch hole be located Higher than the pan so that the flame rises and the hot part of the flame is able then to enter the vent. Locating the hole higher allows space for cooler air to go down into the pan to feed the fire there.

 

[Old Salt]

I can attest to the fact that indirect heat does ignite a powder charge.

About two years ago I built a flintlock rifle that uses a CVA barrel and breech/drum. The first day I took it to the range it fired slowly on the first shot and then would only fire after loading a lot of priming powder into the touch hole.

Suspecting the CVA breech/drum I went back to my workshop and removed it. To my surprise I found the powder channel that would normally connect to the bore was turned 180 degrees to the rear. There was no direct channel for the flame to reach the main powder charge. I suppose there were miniscule gaps through the threads that allowed some hot gases to pass into the main charge.

You can bet I was surprised that the rifle even fired once. It did make me realize there is more involved in the ignition of a flintlock than one might imagine.

Salt