Smooth bore accuracy question

[theoldredneck]

I built a single shot. 32 caliber smooth bore with a 12 inch barrel to play with. I did not expected it to be very accurate with round ball or bullets. Was building it to shoot #12 shot at close range for snakes and rats. Tried round ball and bullets in it just to see how it shot. At 20 yards it shoots both round ball and bullets into some impressive groups. Bullets in the 120 grain size keyhole but are still in a group under 2 1/2". Is this normal accuracy for a smooth bore or did I just get lucky? Thinking about buliding another in 45 or 50 caliber and hoping for same results unless the first is just a case of beginners luck. Any comments are welcome, have shot for years but black powder muzzle loaders are different.

 

[Many Klatch]

Rifling doesn't seem to come into play with long guns until about 65 yards. I imagine that smaller calibers in a pistol like you have wouldn't do well over 40 yards, but you should have good accuracy at 25 yards.

Many Klatch

 

[theoldredneck]

Thanks, after doing another barrel in .430 inside diameter I tried some cast 44 bullets that fit snug without a patch and they shot well at 20 yards without keyholing. Patched ball shoots better. Wanted smooth bore barrels for shot and sand. Sand works wonders on wood boring bee's and does not hurt buildings. I was just surprised that a smooth bore barrel would shoot patched ball and bullets that well. I have not chronyed them for velocity, or put a lot of effort into groups. Black powder guns have proved to be full of pleasant surprises. Accuracy and the energy has been two of the things I did not expect from these smooth bores. That was ignorance on my part. Thanks for your reply. This is a great place to learn.

 

[Many Klatch]

BTW, if you want to get rid of bees without hurting the house, try using a pump up air rifle. The air blast will get them if the muzzle is 12 inches or so away from them. Then you don't have to clean the gun after shooting.

I competed in a match at Fort DeChartes this weekend. The match was tightest group, closest to the X. A smoothbore scored a 9" group. That is basically one hole. This was at about 45 yards. Don't sell smoothbore accuracy short.

Many Klatch

 

[msuspartan]

C'mon Manny...the real reason guys like you like smoothies is because your too lazy to ram a patched ball down a rifled barrel. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :blah:

Cheers, DonK

 

[theoldredneck]

Thanks again. Have used the air guns and it works. Shooting them with handguns is something a friend and I started doing years ago. We would shoot them flying with 22's using ratshot. He was my best friend, we grew up hunting and fishing together. We found out that course sand had a very limited range and so we started " Sandblasting" bees with loads we worked in different old junk guns. Doing it with muzzle loaders is a real hoot. Wish he was still around to shoot with. Should have started playing with muzzle loaders years ago.

 

[majg1234]

I've got a 62cal/20ga SB flinter pistol built by Greg Christian from Ms.It does very well out to 20yds with PRB.Same for shot to 15-20yrds.Several "tree griz" have succumbed to it thus far.Yes the SB pistol is pretty amazing.I also have a Pedersoli Howdah in 20 Ga it to does well but is much heavier.Ain't this fun :wink:

 

[theoldredneck]

I want one of the double barrels, does yours print groups from both barrels in the same place? I'm slow to spend that much and not know anything about how they shoot.

 

[Many Klatch]

The real reason a lot of us shoot smoothbores is that since we can't see the rear sight anyway, who needs them. :wink:

Many Klatch

 

[theoldredneck]

Amen to that answer, an old law enforcement officer told me as a kid that an old man with a .12 gauge short barrel double seldom has to fight, if he does it is with a fool and a short fight. As I get older things like smooth bores are a lot of fun. Simple is good, and a lot can be learned from them and the older generation that loves them.

 

[Matt85]

rifling doesnt seem to make a big difference out to 50 yard. my 71 cal musket will easily shoot a 3" group at 25 yards with an unpatched ball. most smooth bore guns are considered accurate enough to hunt with out to 65 yards.

now the above info is for long barreled guns with a stock. your accuracy will be different using a pistol but thats more because of the lack of a stock. then again smaller bores with a patched ball will give you pretty dang good groups.

-matt

 

[Blizzard of '93]

useing a smooth-bore pistol on a trek makes sense IMO.
I've bagged a good bit of small game and grouse with my CVA .62 bore.

 

[54mountain]

I have a .50 smooth pistol with both front and rear sights that is capable of hitting a life sized chicken gong at 50 yards and also good out to 30 ft or so with shot. This is with an 11" barrel

 

[theoldredneck]

After playing with the .430 barrel shooting shot, bullet, and ball, I have been pleased with the accuracy and preformance. It is not as accurate as a rifled centerfire handgun, but within reasonable ranges has more than enough accuracy and power to take game. Shooting shot it is equal to a .410 within its range. My only regret is not getting into the muzzle loaders sooner or the fact I didn't play with them enough 40 to 50 years ago. They are fun and do have a place in the shooting I do now. Thanks to all the great folks that make up this forum. The wealth of information here and the way members here are quick to help is nice to see in this day and time. Members here are patient and repeatedly answering questions from those of us that are new to muzzle loaders.

 

[Dphar]

Rifling doesn't seem to come into play with long guns until about 65 yards.

Many Klatch

People that believe this need to do more testing.
This is 60 yards 12 shots with a 50 caliber rifle 2 sighters and 10 for score. 9 are in the big hole in the turkeys head. Even with the one that was lost to a wind gust the average deviation from center was .408. Smooth bores simply will not do this. The target is my sighter which I leave up as a backer to record the shots since we shoot 10 different targets for the 10 shots.

Using the 10 targets I made this composite.

Smoothbores simply will not do this and are only competitive with rifles if large hit or miss targets are used or the rifle shooters are substandard in ability or in load development. A rifle that is shooting a poor load is often far worse than a SB that is optimized.

This is the second best string shot in the Turkey match at Cody. The best was about 15 shots, sighters and score shots that make a hole in the backer just large enough to pass my thumb. But we seldom get wind free days and usually the winning strings run about 8-12" due dispersion caused by wind. But a SB will have difficulty shooting a 12" string at 60 yards.
Most SBs will shoot into about 4" at 60 yards if they are doing well. This is for 5 shots or more.
They will sometimes produce very nice core groups but SBs always throw fliers.

This is 6 shots. The last 2 were the high ones. It shot 3 of 4 into a really nice group but one was out at the edge. Group is 4" almost exactly at 60 yards. I would bet this 50 cal smooth rifle would do this size every time based on testing. but the groups were 2-3 times the rifle barrel in the same stock. At 25 yards with a thinner patch 60-75 gr of powder and a 495 ball it would only hit a squirrel about 3 out of 5 shots based on group size. Since it shot the 480s best with 100 gr of powder I could see little reason to try it at small game ranges.

The owner has had the smooth bore barrel straight rifled and it improved it somewhat and made it possible to use the same ball size as a rifle would. This was with a GM SB barrel with rifle sights.
Dan

 

[Zonie]

Nice shooting but this is the Handgun Forum.

 

[Dphar]

Nice shooting but this is the Handgun Forum.

I didn't bring up long guns I just commented.
The smooth rifle, BTW shot groups at 25 yards about the size or larger than a slow twist rifled FL pistol would from a rest or offhand for a competitive pistol shot.


Dan

 

[zimmerstutzen]

At normal pistol ranges with the average (not competition) shooter and with the average quality of the pistols fired whether smooth or rifled matters little. The pistol itself can shoot a group size of "x" inches and the shooter is probably two to four times that. In such cases, whether the gun is smooth or rifled won't be noticed.

Let me add that I have never heard of a bench match for pistols, although the idea intrigues me.

Competition shooters are shooting tuned guns they have by practice and conditioning honed their skills to shoot incredibly small groups. In a younger period of my life, I had a day that all the necessary cosmic forces aligned and I shot a 5 shot group at 25 yd group that could be covered with a 50 cent piece. I never experienced a day like that again, although I came close a few times.

Whether a competition shooter could do the same with a well tuned smooth bore, after working up a load, I suspect may be possible. (there is a trade gun shooter in this area that can usually shoot smaller groups than most of the rifle shooters at 75 yds., offhand of course.) Just for kicks, I shot my smooth rifle at some competitions and placed in 25 and 50 yd matches.

I think Dan's point is well taken, to a great extent. I do think it a fair possibility that a person could work up a smooth bore to be extremely close in normal shooting.

Most buy smooth bore pistols as novelties, or for a little small game shooting with shot. Whether a tuned lock with single set trigger and good sights and a smooth bore would do a comparable job to a rifled pistol of similar construction I think is likely.

 

[theoldredneck]

As a reply to all that responded, first off thanks for all replys. My shooting background is 50 plus years of modern guns and ammo. From both the shooting , building, reloading, bullet making, wildcatting, etc., smooth bores were shotguns. To build a smooth bore muzzle loader and it actually shoot patched round balls into a real group at 20 long steps amazed me. It shot as well as some modern handguns with a rifled barrel and modern factory ammo. I am a handgun hunter, have great understanding of how to build a long range accurate handgun. Smooth bore and accuracy have never gone together in my mind. I understand that distance changes things quickly with smooth bore handguns. I'm old enough to enjoy the slow easy shooting style of muzzle loaders. This is a wonderful site with some really great members. Thanks again for helping those of us that are new to your world.

 

[kopfjaeger]

The real reason a lot of us shoot smoothbores is that since we can't see the rear sight anyway, who needs them. :wink:

Many Klatch

"LOL" I know what you mean. :thumbsup: