Smooth bore vs rifled

[boker]

looking to get my first flintlock gun built,
I was planning to how with a 54 caliber rifle but reading the post about the smooth bores had got me thinking.

How does the accuracy, range , etc compare between the two.

I have always thought of my muzzleloaders as a 100 yards or less rifles when deer hunting.

 

[Sparkitoff]

A lot depends on the sights. I have a smoothbore that has two beads (shotgun style). If you align the beads into a figure 8 the shot will print right on top of the 8. It will group 1-hole at 25 yards but at 50 yards it is a 4-inch group mostly due to the less-than-precise sighting. With that in mind, to me this is a 50-yard big game gun and no further. On the other hand, I have several rifles with good sights that can group 3-inches or less at 100 yards and some further than that. Either way you have to experiment enough to find just the right load to get the most accuracy. Tough choice....

 

[hanshi]

Up to and often past 50 yards a smoothbore - I use a prb - will shoot accurately. I get three shot groups at 50 yds of under 3" with prb and my bare ball load easily stays on a soccer ball at that range. If you want to shoot past 50 yds, I'd recommend a rifle.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not sure about a smooth rifle (with sights, etc.) but I consider my smooth 16 bore (small front sight I mostly ignore, nothing behind that) a 60 yard deer tool with a round ball.

A .54 rifle with proper sights I have used out to 120 yards (just once, on a buck that bedded down in sight and I had the chance to use a log rest). So, twice the range. Typically I prefer under 80 yards, but my sights are blurrier than they used to be.

 

[jrmflintlock]

If you are only concerned with hunting and not Competition shooting putting a rear Rifle type sight or even a peep and with the right load a smooth bore with a patched roundball will give you incredible accuracy out to at least 60-70 yards.

With practice you don't even need the rear sight. I know a guy who scores better at our monthly shoots with his smooth bore than we all do with our rifles and he has no rear sight. I think Spence said consistent hold and sight picture is key!

I had installed a rear sight on my fowler and was getting clover leaf groups off the bench at 25 yards and 2.5 inch groups at 50. Due to club rules I could not compete in the trade gun shoots so I removed it. SO I know the gun can do it, I just need to practice to where I can do it without the sight.

I love my smooth bore!!

A 28ga/54 cal would be the cats Meow for most anything!!

My 2 cents!

 

[Ranger Boyd]

If you are leaning smoothbore with rear sight and historical accuracy is an important factor for you, you might consider the "Type G" (T.M. Hamilton's typology) or "Carolina" gun which originally had a nice brass rear sight. I have two by Mike Brooks - one in 20 gauge and one in 28. Have not really put either to an accuracy test as yet, but to echo what others have said, some of my other smoothies shoot respectably tight with prb inside 50 yds even without a rear sight.

 

[fleener]

I think you need to ask yourself what are you wanting to do with the flintlock? A smoothbore makes a poor rifle.

If you are wanting to shoot shot mostly and an occasional round ball every once and at close range then a smoothbore might work for you. If you are wanting to shoot round balls at 60 plus yards with good accuracy, then get a rifle.

For what it is worth, I do not own a smoothbore rifle. I do own a few rifles and a few shotguns however. When I want to shoot shot, I take a shotgun, round balls I grab a rifle. For me, something that is a compromise between two things might work, but does not mean it works well at both. Just my opinion.


Fleener

 

[Ranger Boyd]

The flip side of the "compromise" argument is versatility. If you can own / bring only one gun and want to be able to do everything tolerably well, the smoothbore may be for you. This is why so many chose a "fowler" on the frontier even when rifles were available.

 

[Rat]

I started off with a Brown Bess, thinking one-gun, do everything, but in the long run I found it worthwhile to get a rifle. (Jeager)(not that I didn't have percussion rifles...but....you know) The smooth bore can be a 70 yard gun, at best. A rifle is a solid 100+ plus yard gun. That's a big difference. Now I am more happy using the Bess for grouse and turkey, and the Jeager for deer, bear, and elk. I guess it also depends on how good the hunting is for you. If the deer are few and far between, and shy and spooky, you probably really want a rifle. If you are constantly tripping over them while hunting, and they are usually calm, a smooth bore will work fine. I had to pass up a very nice bear, that I wanted really bad, because he was about 90 yards from my Bess, and there was no place to take a rest, and the grass was too high to kneel, or I might have tried it, but glad I didn't. Anyway, that's when I got the Jeager. Still have not got a shot at another bear though!!

 

[Brokennock]

The smoothbore is quite versatile as others have mentioned. But, to twist someone else's phrase, a smoothbore makes a poor rifle,,,, but,,,,, a rifle makes an even worse shotgun. That said, I see 2 different uses for shot, a difference between wing shooting and shooting shot in a manner like shooting a rifle. For wing shooting get a true shotgun or a Fowling piece that fits you correctly like a shotgun. If your use for shot is for things like squirrels and turkeys, then a Fowling piece with thicker barrel walls, smooth rifle, Bess, or F.d.C. will work, and, be quite capable of hunting accuracy out to your ability level.

I find the 20 gauge smooth rifle or F.d.C. meets my hunting needs and keeps me within the regulations for all my chosen game here in Connecticut. That said, if I lived in a state where it was legal to hunt squirrels, turkeys, and deer with a .45 or larger rifle,,, my choice would be the rifle.

 

[boker]

Thanks for the thoughts. I have always wanted to hunt small game with a flintlock, however I am mainly a deer hunter so I’ll likely stick with a rifle, maybe someday I can get a smooth bore.

 

[Brokennock]

The smoothbore is quite versatile as others have mentioned. But, to twist someone else's phrase, a smoothbore makes a poor rifle,,,, but,,,,, a rifle makes an even worse shotgun. That said, I see 2 different uses for shot, a difference between wing shooting and shooting shot in a manner like shooting a rifle. For wing shooting get a true shotgun or a Fowling piece that fits you correctly like a shotgun. If your use for shot is for things like squirrels and turkeys, then a Fowling piece with thicker barrel walls, smooth rifle, Bess, or F.d.C. will work, and, be quite capable of hunting accuracy out to your ability level.

I find the 20 gauge smooth rifle or F.d.C. meets my hunting needs and keeps me within the regulations for all my chosen game here in Connecticut. That said, if I lived in a state where it was legal to hunt squirrels, turkeys, and deer with a .45 or larger rifle,,, my choice would be the rifle.

Not sure I was clear on that when I said the smoothbore is "quite capable out to your ability level." I was referring to shooting roundballs here, for things like deer, boar, elk, moose, etc. A rear sight on said smoothie is not needed, but, does flatten the learning curve.

 

[jime444]

Or, if you’ve got the funds, get two barrels, even easier if gun has a hooked breech/hawken style. I’ve got a pedersoli mortimerwith that setup, .54cal rifle and 12 ga smoothbore. Both shoot great, to their limitations that is.

 

[Rat]

I find the 20 gauge smooth rifle or F.d.C. meets my hunting needs and keeps me within the regulations for all my chosen game here in Connecticut. That said, if I lived in a state where it was legal to hunt squirrels, turkeys, and deer with a .45 or larger rifle,,, my choice would be the rifle.

I wish Washington State would allow turkey hunting with a small caliber (maybe under .40) black powder rifle, but that's just a dream. And I suppose they would consider that as "dangerous" as using a .22...and they may be right, people manage to shoot each other with shotguns during turkey season. Not so much anymore, but when turkey first opened, there were some "accidents". (when one mistakes a human for a turkey, or a deer, or an elk...that's no "accident" in my book) Shotguns only (including black powder/muzzle loading guns) as it stands now.

 

[hanshi]

For my use a flintlock smoothbore is all I actually need. I shoot mostly ball in mine and only use shot on game such as turkey and maybe squirrel. But normally for small game I prefer my .36 flintlock. I've rarely had shots at deer that couldn't be taken with a smoothbore. In fact, I can only come up with three or 4 shots that required a rifle over the past 55 years or so. If I anticipate shooting at a distance, I'll carry a rifle. Otherwise you'll find me with "Ol' Loudmouf", the smoothbore.

 

[hanshi]

Hey, Stumpy! My front sights are fuzzy just as you described. Why is this? Reckon the metal starts to decay and causes the front sight to fuzz up? Maybe I'll change the sight out and see.

 

[Christophero]

A season or two ago Darren H's Dad shot a dandy buck with a PRB at over 160 yards. He shared the picture with us while rightly bragging on his Pop, who is an expert with the rifle.
When I was much younger and shot on a consistent basis on the family farm one summer I routinely shot the 50 caliber Renegade out to a two hundred yard gong with the TC Maxi Hunters. Once the drop was figured out the steel rang every shot and later that fall dropped an 8 pointer at 175 yards.
My abilities are no longer this sharp, neither are my eyes but 125 yards +/- isn't a stretch for either conical or PRB. This isn't to brag but to show that someone dedicated to a particular rifle can extend their range beyond 80-100 yards, if the rifle is accurate. I don't believe a smoothbore can do that. Yet, If I were to only hunt the thick woods where shots are restricted a sweet flintlock smoothie would be a special treat to hold and fire. It is all in what you want out of this BP experience. What a precious gift we have to be free to enjoy all the freedoms we have to pursue that which pleases our hearts and challenges our minds in this endeavor.

 

[Headhunter]

The choice is simple.

Get a Rifle, and a Smoothbore.

HH

 

[Grumpa]

when turkey first opened, there were some "accidents". (when one mistakes a human for a turkey, or a deer, or an elk...that's no "accident" in my book)

I am going "Off Topic" here, but I feel the message is important. A study of these "accidents" was done here in Pennsylvania (where more people were shot in turkey season than in deer season!!)

Most of the shootings were the result of "hunters" stalking the call - trying to sneak up on what they thought was a calling bird. (This is illegal in PA.) When the hunter/caller realized they were being stalked, they would move to alert the stalker of their presence, but the stalker/"hunter" would see the movement, and a flash of black/red/white/brown/blue (turkey colors) and shoot!
The correct procedure for the caller is to loudly shout: "MAN!!"

The psychological reality is that a hunter in an excited state, anticipating the imminent appearance of the game he is pursuing, will often "see" what he is anticipating. This is why blaze orange clothing was developed for hunting - it is so out of place that it shocks the mind into the reality that the seen movement is another hunter. This is precisely why it is illegal to stalk the sound of a turkey's call. (I should point out that our Spring Gobbler season does not require the wearing of orange while on your stand ; but an orange band or cap must be displayed on a tree or bush close by.)

This is not to excuse the shooter. Obviously, if he had not broken the law by stalking the call, he would not have put himself in the position of shooting another hunter.

Again, my apologies to the OP, it is not my intent to hijack the thread.

Richard/Grumpa