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Smooth rifles, were they made as new guns?

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Wow! That's a lot of shooting! I don't know how many balls per shoot you did (50-100?) but it still sounds like a lot of shooting. Would be interesting to know what the bore / groove measurements were before and after.

I doubt that even during war time anyone put that many balls thru a gun. I will concede that these guns were used for YEARS, so yes, there was some wear on them. I also understand the effects of friction / pressure over time on anything. However, most "smoot Rifles" were made that way and not "shot out" or recut. TDY
I agree there were probably made a lot of smooth rifles, In thoughts on The Kentucky Rifle in The Golden Age Kindig list info from Leonard Reedy's journals. He list a number of guns made at $7.00 or less. At least one is listed as a smooth rifle so it is probably safe to say that many of the cheaper guns he made were probably smooth bore. Of all the repairs listed he freshed a barrel 128 times, way more than any other repair he made. Only 1 repair is listed as boring a barrel smooth.

I don't know what the measurements on that 40 cal were but when I retired it I was using a .400 ball and a .020 patch and that loaded very easy. There was still some VERY shallow rifling showing but the groups were starting to open up. No idea how many rounds I fired through it. I was a very active match shooter up until I injured my back in 2004.
 
Crazy how someone on a forum will come to conclusions about what was posted without even knowing all the facts or the person.
Look the gun had the lead stripped out of it a few times before it was retired. The gun had a round count of around 100,000 down the pipe. This is a estimate. How would I know this you might ask? Well I’ll tell you.. I spent my allowance on 100 round boxes of cci mini mags. Most weekends I was able to buy 10 boxes. Not much else to do being a kid growing up in the back woods of the Sierra Nevadas. I think you need to find a hobby Mr. @M. De Land
Sorry, your post was pegging my BS meter ! I have a very good idea of how long it takes to burn up 100 K rounds of anything.
 
My grandfather gave me a ‘92 Winchester 25-20 that he bought new to keep on the dragline he ran and keep it on the dragline he did. He shot black powder cartridges and kept the outside oiled but was not very regular on bore cleaning. By the time I got it you had to look hard to see any sign that it had ever been rifled.
 
Is there a resource on the caliber of smooth rifles? were they of similar caliber of the rifles or did they run the same gauge as most fowlers?
 
Is there a resource on the caliber of smooth rifles? were they of similar caliber of the rifles or did they run the same gauge as most fowlers?
From what I have read they were usually similar caliber to rifles at the time. 50 seems to be about average bore size. I have not seen many smooth rifles that were larger than around 58 or 60 caliber, but some probably were.
 
I always laugh when the argument comes to "smooth rifle" The details that people get mired in are amazing. Smooth rifle , Fusil, Fowler? Really, Some minor difference in architecture or lock style and suddenly we have an entirely new breed of firearm etc., LOL, Not really. I am a firm believer that "rifles" per say were not the mainstay of the "frontier" at any time period you want to pick. Few people had the means $$ to have fancy firearms, and fewer still, had the luxury of multiple firearms etc. IMHO, the shotgun, fowler, smooth rifle or smoothbore was the most common choice, and much of the historical documents that we have support that, regardless of what name you give them. The smooth bore was a much more versatile firearm. The ability to use shot or ball was significant. Also, when you take into account where people were located and how they lived, there were very few "long" shots taken when hunting or even defending the homestead etc. How much did they shoot. Probably as little as possible. Powder & Ball was expensive, had to be imported long distance etc over poor infrastructure etc. No one was wasting anything. If you believed Hollywood etc you would think everyone in the West was wearing a sidearm 24/7 when the reality was quite different. Handguns were expensive and severed little practical use for most people. Farmers & ranchers used a shotgun or long arm to feed themselves and take care of business around the home/ranch etc. A handgun was a luxury. For every picture you see of an old time "cowboy with a handgun there were a hundred people who did not have one. The argument has been made many times that Colt and Winchester did not settle the West. It was more likely the single or double barreled shotgun. I say it was the same from the time they landed on Plymouth rock or wherever, the smooth bore firearm was the predominant firearm in use, Musket, Fusil, Smooth Rifle, Fowler or Trade Gun. Just one mans opinion!!:dunno:
 
I shared an article on the Smoothbore Page a few months back that will answer a lot of these questions. I believe the thread is Smooth Rifles Revisited.
 
Is there a resource on the caliber of smooth rifles? were they of similar caliber of the rifles or did they run the same gauge as most fowlers?
Well, if you consider ALL smooth bores, than there were Muskets that were .75 caliber to .69 and some smaller, so the smoothbore IMHO was generally around .54 and larger because to be smaller than that limited severly the amount of "shot" that could be used, which was a main advantage of a smooth bore. being able to shoot both shot or round ball.
 
I always laugh when the argument comes to "smooth rifle" The details that people get mired in are amazing. Smooth rifle , Fusil, Fowler? Really, Some minor difference in architecture or lock style and suddenly we have an entirely new breed of firearm etc., LOL, Not really. I am a firm believer that "rifles" per say were not the mainstay of the "frontier" at any time period you want to pick. Few people had the means $$ to have fancy firearms, and fewer still, had the luxury of multiple firearms etc. IMHO, the shotgun, fowler, smooth rifle or smoothbore was the most common choice, and much of the historical documents that we have support that, regardless of what name you give them. The smooth bore was a much more versatile firearm. The ability to use shot or ball was significant. Also, when you take into account where people were located and how they lived, there were very few "long" shots taken when hunting or even defending the homestead etc. How much did they shoot. Probably as little as possible. Powder & Ball was expensive, had to be imported long distance etc over poor infrastructure etc. No one was wasting anything. If you believed Hollywood etc you would think everyone in the West was wearing a sidearm 24/7 when the reality was quite different. Handguns were expensive and severed little practical use for most people. Farmers & ranchers used a shotgun or long arm to feed themselves and take care of business around the home/ranch etc. A handgun was a luxury. For every picture you see of an old time "cowboy with a handgun there were a hundred people who did not have one. The argument has been made many times that Colt and Winchester did not settle the West. It was more likely the single or double barreled shotgun. I say it was the same from the time they landed on Plymouth rock or wherever, the smooth bore firearm was the predominant firearm in use, Musket, Fusil, Smooth Rifle, Fowler or Trade Gun. Just one mans opinion!!:dunno:
We do have a category because of those little details. If some one unknowingly calls our long rifle a ‘musket’ we will explain the difference. If given a chance we will explain until the listeners eyes glaze over and they fall off their stool in a boredom induced unconsciousness
We would not classify a Bean and a Full stock Hawken together even though they’re contemporary
An American could buy a rifle. If new it would fit a particular pattern not seen twenty years before, and will not be made in twenty years.
The same with Fowling guns. Or a gun on rifle stick that was smooth. Or a brand new trade gun, including trade rifles after american independence. And of course used guns of all sorts.
 
We do have a category because of those little details. If some one unknowingly calls our long rifle a ‘musket’ we will explain the difference. If given a chance we will explain until the listeners eyes glaze over and they fall off their stool in a boredom induced unconsciousness
We would not classify a Bean and a Full stock Hawken together even though they’re contemporary
An American could buy a rifle. If new it would fit a particular pattern not seen twenty years before, and will not be made in twenty years.
The same with Fowling guns. Or a gun on rifle stick that was smooth. Or a brand new trade gun, including trade rifles after american independence. And of course used guns of all sorts.
"in a boredom induced unconsciousness", very good! LOL!
 
Is there a resource on the caliber of smooth rifles? were they of similar caliber of the rifles or did they run the same gauge as most fowlers?
If you look in Rifles of Colonial America most of the info as to bore size and whether it is smooth or rifled is there and the bore size is all over the place.
 
Apologies if the pages appear out of order.
 

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I would think that with the cost of powder and it's scarceness especially on the frontier a hunter/frontiersman wouldn't be doing a lot of shooting, especially enough to wear out a barrel, would take years.
 
I would think that with the cost of powder and it's scarceness especially on the frontier a hunter/frontiersman wouldn't be doing a lot of shooting, especially enough to wear out a barrel, would take years.
Something I’ve oft thought of. It’s formed the musings around a campfire on a trek many times
A load for a frontier smoothie would be about 50-100 shots for a pound of powder and 10-20 shots for a pound of lead.
So let’s say you shoot a turkey. With carbs on the side you could feed three or four people. Just meat one or two.
A rabbit or a duck won’t go as far.
Yet you’ve used the same amount of lead and powder that could put a deer, up to a buff in the larder. It’s just not economical to hunt small game.
But…..
Way out on the wild frontier most trading post offers shot.
Buck shot, beaver shot,swan shot, snipe shot. Folks depending on wild meat were buying and using expensive resources on small game
Not talking passenger pidgins here. That was hunted to extinction by market and sport hunters. This is the frontier where a missed shot was an empty belly. And a gallon of powder was not only expensive in cost but expensive in weight/volume in transportation
Taste?
I know I’m as happy with a bowl of rabbit stew as a deer roast
Was it just worth it?
A pipe bowl, a campfire, the sound of the tall timber, and a mystery I’ve never got my mind around
 
Something I’ve oft thought of. It’s formed the musings around a campfire on a trek many times
A load for a frontier smoothie would be about 50-100 shots for a pound of powder and 10-20 shots for a pound of lead.
So let’s say you shoot a turkey. With carbs on the side you could feed three or four people. Just meat one or two.
A rabbit or a duck won’t go as far.
Yet you’ve used the same amount of lead and powder that could put a deer, up to a buff in the larder. It’s just not economical to hunt small game.
But…..
Way out on the wild frontier most trading post offers shot.
Buck shot, beaver shot,swan shot, snipe shot. Folks depending on wild meat were buying and using expensive resources on small game
Not talking passenger pidgins here. That was hunted to extinction by market and sport hunters. This is the frontier where a missed shot was an empty belly. And a gallon of powder was not only expensive in cost but expensive in weight/volume in transportation
Taste?
I know I’m as happy with a bowl of rabbit stew as a deer roast
Was it just worth it?
A pipe bowl, a campfire, the sound of the tall timber, and a mystery I’ve never got my mind around
I have often thought that we have it all wrong, because we think that the original settlers etc actually got to eat a lot of meat and other things each day. I would not be surprised if there were lots of days that a biscuit, whatever berries or local shrubbery they could harvest and a cup of coffee/tea was the best they could do!
 
I'd say you are 100% correct. Probably varied depending on time of year but I'm sure there were some very lean times when just having anything to eat was a blessing.
 
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