Smoothbore accuracy without a rear sight, HOW??

[Snow on the Roof]

On a side bar. What flints do you all use? I sent the lock on this one to Lafin' Dog and he worked it over very well reducing the trigger pull considerable and producing a sure sparker.Thanks again Matt! However the lock seems to eat flints :shocked2: often getting only 3-4 shots per flint and never more than 10. whe I purchased this gun, the seller sent me several flints and they are all I have used so far. On my .20, which has a large Siler lock, I have been using Black English flints and have gotten as many as 100 shots from 1 flint and 50 is not uncommon.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Matt,
Not a theory at all but geometry.
By your statement of changing your sight picture to show more barrel, you are raising your pupil to a higher location in relation to the front sight. You are doing the same thing as raising the rear sight on a rifle to raise POI. A rear sight aligns the height of the line of sight with the front. Lack of a rear sight requires the eye to depend on another means of getting the height right. Having the comb at a proper height to allow solid and comfortable mounting every time is the best abd most consistent option over relying on tacks, hovering in mid air trying to gain the same picture that worked last time, or other options.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Snow,

Traditionally the comb was raised by means of leather tacked on and stuffed with tow or some other internal.Still a great option for today.
Today the common method is to use various thicknesses of moleskin from the pharmacy. Sometimes if a lot of building is needed, cardboard and electric tape with a moleskin for comfort on top is good. This can be quickly taken off and the sticky cleaned of in a jiffy with wd-40.

Another method of then as well as now is stock bending by hot oil or steam, etc

If your shots are as low as you report, and if its not the load, shooter malfunction, etc, then a barrel bend may be needed first to get it in line and then fine tune the comb.
The first hurdle to clear is point of aim and that has to with how much the bore itself is causing a problem. The next step is point of impact and that deals with the stock, the sights.. and the shooter.

 

[matt denison]

"Not a theory at all but geometry."



I s'pose you are right now that I think on it a bit. I still had a firm cheek weld, never "hover" over the comb. My current NW gun fits and shoots where it is supposed to so I don't think about that much anymore. I only had to file about three licks off the front sight and it goes into center of the target - most of the time :grin: I center the front sight on the top flat at the breech as a guide for windage. I hold the barrel as flat as I can and at 25 yds I use the tip of the sight dead on the bullseye. At 50 I use about half of the front sight to raise POA to get POI. Out to 75 yds I use the base of the sight where it touches the barrel for elevation. This has worked very well for me in competition shooting trailwalks where the targets are random distances. All this shooting is offhand, of course. (my favorite)

 

[Stumpkiller]

Ha ha, I'm not a competitive shooter but maybe they use instinctive shooting like in primitive archery. :grin: More seriously I think it's repetition and muscle memory in mounting the gun and sight picture. And I am SERIOUSLY jealous of your groups at 50 yards! :hatsoff:

That's how I do it. I shoot my smoothbores like I do my bow: focus on the target, look down the arrow and let your peripheral vision tell your arms where the barrel (or arrow) has to be pointing. Like shooting pool, also. Instinctive bow shooters call it "gun barreling" in the same tone of voice they would say "you seem to have tracked dog poo onto my carpet". Works well enough for me on deer and rabbits. ;-)

It helps tremendously to have the gun stocked so that it consistantly is directly below your master eye. Just as an archer needs a very consistant anchor point.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Some folks claim that higher comb stocks can kick them and dont fit and therefore they need a much lower drop. In many of those cases the higher comb is actually a closer fit. What I mean is that the shooter is considering the "cheek weld" from the side of the stock instead of the top. The side fit relates to left or right (cast included here as well) but the height at the top of the comb should be the consideration of raising or lowering impact (up and down). It is better to solidly mount the cheek ON a stock of correct height to get the same thing every time and be able to have the shooter and the gun become one.
In the case above of a higher comb, the whack can come from side cheeking to get the right picture while the comb is only almost where it needs to be in height ( but not quite) to allow a proper and solid mount on top. The cheekbone is hovering just over the comb without contact while tge shooter is assuming his "cheek weld" is solid. At discharge in this situation the comb is going to pop you.
Those shooting a lower comb off the side dont get this and many shoot quite well in that manner. Fact is though they could be even better if they could anchor themselves more into the gun and all recoil as a unit.

 

[majg1234]

I'm no expert by any means just trying to help here.What I found is that if I really tucked down on the stock like a rifle I shot pretty low with my smoothy however. If I bring it up like a shot gun use the bottem part of the turtle sight to bisect the center of a target and use the vertical to keep it square out to about 60yds my groups are less than 3" most of the time :shocked2: .The sight picture is exactly like the cross hair of a scope with the bottem missing.I of course had to do some powder and load adjusting to get what I wanted but it worked for me.I even have tried it out to 80rds groups are 6-8" @ that distance .To me it seems there are a lot of variables in each gun and shooter and you will need to burn a good bit of powder to find what'll work for you :thumbsup:

 

[Snow on the Roof]

On a side bar. What flints do you all use? I sent the lock on this one to Lafin' Dog and he worked it over very well reducing the trigger pull considerable and producing a sure sparker.Thanks again Matt! However the lock seems to eat flints :shocked2: often getting only 3-4 shots per flint and never more than 10. whe I purchased this gun, the seller sent me several flints and they are all I have used so far. On my .20, which has a large Siler lock, I have been using Black English flints and have gotten as many as 100 shots from 1 flint and 50 is not uncommon.

Anybody?

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I have not competed much with the smoothbore but I have done well with it when I have. My process in getting sighted in with a smoothbore might be a little elaborate but effective.
First I settle on a load.

Then I shoot it from a good rest and find the aiming combination that will get the ball where I want it.

Then I file, bend, sand, or whatever I can do to mechanically get the point of impact to match my point of aim as well as I can get it.

Finally, I shoot it to find how I need to hold it and how to align the aiming points to get it to hit the aim point and get the feel of it on my cheek and shoulder when my aim points are lined up. I then practice mounting the gun, at home, with my eyes closed and then open them to check my alignment. I do this over and over again. When I go back to the range I test fire sitting but without support, making sure my body position is as close to my offhand stance as possible, and that I concentrate on the feel of the gun on my cheek and shoulder.

In following this practice over and over again I find that, in a shorter amount of time then you would expect, I am shooting the smoothbore quite well. The most important thing of all is; get a gun that fits you.

 

[Lonegun1894]

I use both English and French knapped flints from TOTW, but have more of the English. I am also trying to learn to knap my own, and have had good results when I get the occasional one knapped correctly. My own knapped ones are from flint (or chert) I pick up locally here in Central Texas.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Come springtime I will be going up to Tours to drop off SWMBO for a day at Ikea and I will be arranging to meet Jean-Jacques Dutrieux at the flint museum in Meusnes who still knaps commercial gun flints.

Not that it will be any help to you Snow On The Roof, but I gather that the industry used to be for fire making flints and the early musket ones were just small sizes of those. I also gather that they were simply the wedges of a good sized bulb of percussion knocked off a flat topped core and used as they came. Hopefully I can get Jean-Jacques to give a demo.

If I can get away with it I will also try to visit the old quarrying sites and see if I can liberate some useable amber flints to allow me to knap my own gun flints.

Maybe these old simple spalls would work for you if you can find some flint/chert? Where I live the only flint supply is the coarse gravel of a local museum's driveway but I have had a little success with using quartz from my river but it does dig into the hammer.