Smoothbore accuracy

[Tb54]

what is good accuracy with a PRB in a smoothbore, and is there much difference between a musket and a shotgun shooting a PRB?

 

[tenngun]

A lot of factors fit in. A ‘smooth rifle’ with a heavy octagon barrel full length can shoot to eighty yards on par with a rifle but not as consistently. A military musket loaded with paper cartridge may miss a man sized target at a hundred yards twice in five shots, and only get a kill shot once in those five shots.
In general at twenty five yard you will shoot one ragged hole, at fifty six-eight inch groups .
From experiments I’ve see a smooth bore shoots better then,or at least as well as modern shot gun slugs.

 

[tenngun]

 

[Brokennock]

I can get one ragged hole at 50 yards off the bench with my smooth rifle that has a rear sight. My Tule F.d.C. without a rear sight, 4 to 5 inch groups at 50 off the bench, but that is my misfunction more than the gun's function.
Smoothbore accuracy seems to be mostly a function of load development and shooter technique/ability. And a willingness to throw conventional wisdom, regarding what makes an accurate load in a rifle, out the window.

There are many, many, threads here on this subject.

 

[PluggedNickel]

I haven't shot my smooth bore Flinter yet. Still getting it tuned and prepped, and waiting for winter gale winds to ease up! I'm in no hurry. From what I have seen in my studies of them, here and elsewhere, my outlook is "expect to be disappointed, and you won't be disappointed!" when it comes to accuracy. YMMV
I'm hoping I can achieve a "minute of Red Coat" grouping! And hey, if not, I'll have a really nice cylinder bore shotgun huh?

 

[Juice Jaws]

I haven't shot my smooth bore Flinter yet. Still getting it tuned and prepped, and waiting for winter gale winds to ease up! I'm in no hurry. From what I have seen in my studies of them, here and elsewhere, my outlook is "expect to be disappointed, and you won't be disappointed!" when it comes to accuracy. YMMV
I'm hoping I can achieve a "minute of Red Coat" grouping! And hey, if not, I'll have a really nice cylinder bore shotgun huh?

You might be surprise how well they shoot out to 50 60 yards. At 100 yards they kill a 50 gal. barrel pretty well. And what is this "have to wait for gale winds to ease up", a little wind never slow the Duke from killing the bad guys pilgrim.

 

[PluggedNickel]

You might be surprise how well they shoot out to 50 60 yards. At 100 yards they kill a 50 gal. barrel pretty well. And what is this "have to wait for gale winds to ease up", a little wind never slow the Duke from killing the bad guys pilgrim.

Yah, true enough! But the Duke wasn't a p---y! I am LOL!

 

[PluggedNickel]

I can get one ragged hole at 50 yards off the bench with my smooth rifle that has a rear sight. My Tule F.d.C. without a rear sight, 4 to 5 inch groups at 50 off the bench, but that is my misfunction more than the gun's function.
Smoothbore accuracy seems to be mostly a function of load development and shooter technique/ability. And a willingness to throw conventional wisdom, regarding what makes an accurate load in a rifle, out the window.

There are many, many, threads here on this subject.

Seems to be so. I watched Gunny R.Lee Ermey shoot smooth bore Brown Bess, 1861 Springfield, Henry, and up to modern sniper rifle. He was an excellent shot, but lets just say, the smoothie shot worst of all of them, even though he shot it at a closer range. That was what he was expecting though, they really weren't intended for target shooting accuracy, more for a wall of lead coming at troop formations marching/charging in line. It was an apples to oranges test. Also, they were the rapid fire piece of the day, compared to the long rifles. On top of all that, it was common practice on Flintlocks to close their eyes just as the trigger broke, no safety glasses back then, if you were forced to shoot into the wind, not really healthy for your eyes! At 10 pounds plus with bayonet, and 5 feet long, if you were still standing after the first volley, time to stab and bludgeon, probably why the grenade was invented!
If I can get 4 to 5 inch groups at 50 yards off the bench I'll be a happy camper! Lock is going to need some tuning before that is going to happen I suspect.

 

[Brokennock]

I haven't shot my smooth bore Flinter yet. Still getting it tuned and prepped, and waiting for winter gale winds to ease up! I'm in no hurry. From what I have seen in my studies of them, here and elsewhere, my outlook is "expect to be disappointed, and you won't be disappointed!" when it comes to accuracy. YMMV
I'm hoping I can achieve a "minute of Red Coat" grouping! And hey, if not, I'll have a really nice cylinder bore shotgun huh?

Not sure where you're picking up this business of being disappointed and only having a highest expectation of "minute of redcoat" accuracy. If one reads the smoothbore section enough, mostly one sees examples of very good accuracy, and how to get it. Read the hunting section and there are plenty of examples of game taken, ethically and cleanly, with smoothbore long arms. But, it does take time and effort.

 

[Brokennock]

Seems to be so. I watched Gunny R.Lee Ermey shoot smooth bore Brown Bess, 1861 Springfield, Henry, and up to modern sniper rifle. He was an excellent shot, but lets just say, the smoothie shot worst of all of them, even though he shot it at a closer range. That was what he was expecting though, they really weren't intended for target shooting accuracy, more for a wall of lead coming at troop formations marching/charging in line. It was an apples to oranges test. Also, they were the rapid fire piece of the day, compared to the long rifles. On top of all that, it was common practice on Flintlocks to close their eyes just as the trigger broke, no safety glasses back then, if you were forced to shoot into the wind, not really healthy for your eyes! At 10 pounds plus with bayonet, and 5 feet long, if you were still standing after the first volley, time to stab and bludgeon, probably why the grenade was invented!
If I can get 4 to 5 inch groups at 50 yards off the bench I'll be a happy camper! Lock is going to need some tuning before that is going to happen I suspect.

Garbage in, garbage out. If one doesn't load for accuracy one won't get accuracy. The original musket loading was for speed/ease of loading, not to be able to hit individual targets. It's all in the load. One can handload for a cartridge rifle capable of quarter m.o.a., and only get 2 m.o.a. out of it. Of course comparing m.l. smoothbore accuracy to modern rifle accuracy is a bit extreme, and a bit silly.

 

[PluggedNickel]

No argument there friend. Very good accuracy (for a smooth bore) out to about 50-60 yards with the right load, and right shooter. For years the only thing we could hunt deer with here in Ohio was a slug shotgun. I took my share with one, a single shot hammer gun too. But, I never took a shot beyond 60 yards! Best group I ever got out of it was about 5 inches at 50 yards, and the group was always high right, KY windage made up for that. Is it more challenging hunting with a smooth bore ML? Sure it is! Just as it is to hunt with a bow (done that as well)! Can it be done with great success, YES! But, you have to pay your dues, practice, work up the correct load, and hunt much closer than you could with a rifle. That is what makes it so rewarding in the end.
If you have a tack drivin' smooth bore good on you! I take what I read on gun forums with a grain of salt when it comes to accuracy/distance claims.
Perhaps I will be surprised what accuracy I get out of my Charleville, but you should know, I have been shooting and reloading for modern arms, and CAS for years, so yes, I get your garbage in, garbage out statement. I'm just not expecting a clover leaf group at even 30 yards out of a production Pedersoli smooth bore reproduction musket. I didn't buy the piece to hunt with, or for target practice. I bought it for fun, making smoke, and SAR events.
Gunny wasn't comparing the accuracy expecting the pieces to compete against each other, he was trying to show the evolution of long gun accuracy. IIRC he even shot a wheel lock.
Don't take it personal, if I don't expect to achieve what you may with your piece. I'm not saying your smoothie isn't accurate in your hands, but accurate compared to what? The only fair test would be to another smooth bore, and then one of the same quality, not a el-cheapo vs a custom made masterpiece.
And yes, I expect to improve with practice, if I decide to put the time, $$$, and effort into that. For now I'm loving my first Flintlock smooth bore, accurate or not!
I am not now, nor have I ever been a world class, trap shot, rifle shooter, pistol shot. But, I have taken a lot of game in my day,
and have had a lot of fun hunting and shooting, and made some friends along the way!
Hopefully you will become one of them. I'll keep you posted with my results.

 

[Stumpkiller]

6" at 60 yards without sights from a flintlock bird "shotgun" on a plain "deer torso" sized surface without aiming point is what I consider adequate. . . if not good. ;-)

 

[PluggedNickel]

6" at 60 yards without sights from a flintlock bird "shotgun" on a plain "deer torso" sized surface without aiming point is what I consider adequate. . . if not good. ;-)

I would agree. I guess it all depends on what ones definition of accurate is. I will be very pleased if I can do as well with my Charleville! It does have a front sight, sort of, a small short one.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Ignor the upper holes. The lower three were shot at 30 paces off hand.

Adequate for rabbits and up.

 

[Tb54]

If a guy was to get one gun, would it be better to get a musket, and shoot shot in it, for birds, or a shotgun, and shoot a PRB for deer?

I expect the heavier bbl of a musket would have a beneficial influence on PRB accuracy.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I shoot both from both. Have taken wing shots with muskets, smooth rifles and shotguns.
All my guns are ball ready and anything that needs a ball needs to not come closer than 40yds if I am after it!

 

[PluggedNickel]

Ignor the upper holes. The lower three were shot at 30 paces off hand.

Adequate for rabbits and up.

Much better than my old 20 ga. shotgun was with slugs for sure!

 

[PluggedNickel]

Ignor the upper holes. The lower three were shot at 30 paces off hand.
Adequate for rabbits and up.

Love that tag line mate! Sadly, we have entire sections of our country that are just as bad, and getting worse every day! Perhaps it is good I have taken up BP shooting. God forbid it becomes all we have left! And shame on us if that happens without one hell of a fight!

 

[tenngun]

An ol boy working for HBC told men coming west to not bother buying a rifle as a fusil would shoot as well as a rifle to sixty yards, and that was where most game was taken.. I think that’s a fair statement it’s been some years since I took a rifle gun afield

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

If a guy was to get one gun, would it be better to get a musket, and shoot shot in it, for birds, or a shotgun, and shoot a PRB for deer?

I expect the heavier bbl of a musket would have a beneficial influence on PRB accuracy.

What's the difference between a musket and a shotgun?