Smoothbore accuracy

[hanshi]

My smoothbore does have a rear sight. With prb I get 3" groups and sometimes less at 50 yards. Bare ball load will stay on a paper plate at that range. Both fine for deer at the distances I hunt.

 

[tenngun]

It’s nomenclature thing , a musket started as a large two man gun used to guard flanks on a battle field. Between 1650 and 1700 it came to mean a large military gun that could be fitted for a bayonet. Smaller arms were muskatoons and carbines.
Shot guns were called fowling prices in the old days. They were lighter and mostly shorter barreled then muskets, took no bayonet and were more graceful in lines.
Similar to musket and fowling pieces were fusils. Fusils were made to shoot a ball but could shoot shot. It’s easy to tell a musket from a fowling peice or fusil, but it’s real hard to tell a fowling peice froma fusil, then just to drive you crazy military officers often had officers fusils, that looked like muskets but were made lighter and shorter.
So the easy answer is if it’s military it’s a musket and a civilian peice a ‘shot gun’ although that term wasn’t used much inthe old days.
Today we often call a fowling peice a Fowler, but in the old days a Fowler was some one whohunted fowl, not his gun.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

It’s nomenclature thing , a musket started as a large two man gun used to guard flanks on a battle field. Between 1650 and 1700 it came to mean a large military gun that could be fitted for a bayonet. Smaller arms were muskatoons and carbines.
Shot guns were called fowling prices in the old days. They were lighter and mostly shorter barreled then muskets, took no bayonet and were more graceful in lines.
Similar to musket and fowling pieces were fusils. Fusils were made to shoot a ball but could shoot shot. It’s easy to tell a musket from a fowling peice or fusil, but it’s real hard to tell a fowling peice froma fusil, then just to drive you crazy military officers often had officers fusils, that looked like muskets but were made lighter and shorter.
So the easy answer is if it’s military it’s a musket and a civilian peice a ‘shot gun’ although that term wasn’t used much inthe old days.
Today we often call a fowling peice a Fowler, but in the old days a Fowler was some one whohunted fowl, not his gun.

So, I'm confused, you can't shoot a ball in a fowling piece but you can out of a Fusil? Why were Fusils primarily made for shooting ball? How much longer were muskets compared to fowling guns?

 

[tenngun]

You can shoot a ball out of a fowling piece, but the folks that bought them bought them for fowling.
Fusils could and did shoot shot, but the folks that bought them bought them for ball or buck and ball loads for bigger game hunting.
Fusils in the early days were oft made with 42-44 inch, muskets were often close to 44-46. Between the middle of the eighteenth centuryand the end of the flintlock era muskets got shorter... but so did civilian guns.
Much of the difference is the weight of the gun in general. A musket as made for hand to hand fighting. Had a lug for the bayonet, a fat butt to use as a club, sting think stok to peri thrust and strik hard.
Fowling prices were made as light as they could to make them swing easy. Fusils tend to be a little heavier, but no where as near as heavy as a musket.

 

[Grenadier1758]

A musket was a smooth bored gun designed for the abuse of use by the military. It was designed for reliability, so the barrels were thicker and had a lug for a bayonet. The stock would have sling swivels attached, the locks much larger and the bore much larger.

The fowler (shotgun wasn't a term used in the mid 18th century) was generally of smaller bore, lighter weight, 6 to 7 pounds. A smaller lock was used, but these were often faster in ignition of the powder charge so wing shooting was possible. The stock would be slim in profile with a bit of cast off for better handling. The fowler was used for shot, but was perfectly capable of using a ball for hunting of deer or other large game.

Fowler, fusil, fuzee in the most simple form were different name for essentially the same gun. Think of the differences between pancakes, flapjacks or hotcakes which is mainly where in the country you are asking about one.

 

[Brokennock]

If a guy was to get one gun, would it be better to get a musket, and shoot shot in it, for birds, or a shotgun, and shoot a PRB for deer?

I expect the heavier bbl of a musket would have a beneficial influence on PRB accuracy.

One gun that's legal for all Connecticut game was the idea behind my 20 gauge smoothbore/s. I think if that is one's intention, something with an octagon to round barrel might be in order, adds strength to the breach area and gives a nice flat sighting plane for the rear sight, even if that rear sight be your eye. A smooth bored rifle of your choice of rifle "school"/architecture is great if most of your loose shot shooting is game like squirrels and turkey where your shooting a shotgun more like a rifle but with loose shot. If more wingshooting is your thing then a properly fit fowling piece with an octagon to round barrel might be more the ticket, this might include the French Fusil des Chase or a more English style colonial fowler. Of course don't overlook the Type G trade gun, probably the best cross between a fowling piece and a smooth rifle to be found.
Muskets are generally military pieces and thus are built heavily for the rigors of combat. More weight, more bulk, nothing really gained performance wise.

 

[Britsmoothy]

A musket was a smooth bored gun designed for the abuse of use by the military. It was designed for reliability, so the barrels were thicker and had a lug for a bayonet. The stock would have sling swivels attached, the locks much larger and the bore much larger.

The fowler (shotgun wasn't a term used in the mid 18th century) was generally of smaller bore, lighter weight, 6 to 7 pounds. A smaller lock was used, but these were often faster in ignition of the powder charge so wing shooting was possible. The stock would be slim in profile with a bit of cast off for better handling. The fowler was used for shot, but was perfectly capable of using a ball for hunting of deer or other large game.

Fowler, fusil, fuzee in the most simple form were different name for essentially the same gun. Think of the differences between pancakes, flapjacks or hotcakes which is mainly where in the country you are asking about one.

You can wing shoot with a flapjack! Cool

B

 

[smo]

I tend too get better patterns from My smoothy shooting Waffles!

The grid pattern on them seems too hold the lube (butter) better.... lol

 

[Grenadier1758]

C'mon Brit, I would have thought that in the land of Shakespeare, one would understand that a shot gun, (fowler, fusil, fuzee) by any other name is fundamentally the same thing.

You throw the flapjack on the ground so that when birds land on it, you can shoot them with your musket.

Musket being used as generic term for almost any firearm that can be shot, not in the specific term for a shoulder mounted military firearm.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Hasn't anyone read " Flintlock Fowlers, The First Guns made In America" By Tom Grinslade?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

You can shoot a ball out of a fowling piece, but the folks that bought them bought them for fowling.
Fusils could and did shoot shot, but the folks that bought them bought them for ball or buck and ball loads for bigger game hunting.
Fusils in the early days were oft made with 42-44 inch, muskets were often close to 44-46. Between the middle of the eighteenth centuryand the end of the flintlock era muskets got shorter... but so did civilian guns.
Much of the difference is the weight of the gun in general. A musket as made for hand to hand fighting. Had a lug for the bayonet, a fat butt to use as a club, sting think stok to peri thrust and strik hard.
Fowling prices were made as light as they could to make them swing easy. Fusils tend to be a little heavier, but no where as near as heavy as a musket.

I believe the term "Fusil" was a generic term in the 18th century meaning any flintlock non military long arm.
Weight and length of fowling guns depended a lot on intended use and time period. In the 3rd quarter of the 18th century fowling guns could be as light as 6 lbs or could be well over 15 lbs or heavier for wild fowling guns of large bore. They could have barrels anywhere from 38" to 72"+ depending again on intended use.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I been hunting with a fuzee today for rabbit with shot. I'll put a picture of that in the hunting section but as an end of day shot I happened on a fair sized oak trunk.
Hmm I thought to my self that is a large elks chest or about a one of our large red deer chests!
I paces off 40 strides. Dumped about 75grns of powder, thin cards, blob o' my lube, 3/16" fibre wad, a .600" ball and a thin card on top.
I battled the left to right wind and aimed a hair to the left in the failing light.
I followed through until I heard the ball connect.
Here is the result (I need not of allowed for the wind).

That would of been my venison.

B.

 

[Skychief]

Excellent Nate

 

[hanshi]

Smoothbores are often given less respect than rifles but this seems to be changing. A smoothbore can do wonderful work with a ball, and of course, shot. In the areas I've hunted the smoothbore shooting ball, either bare or prb, gives little up to a rifle. Up to at least 50 yards, and often farther, a smoothbore will easily take deer. With shot, they take turkey, squirrel and other small game. I plan to continue using mine for all game.

 

[cullen1780]

And, as we age, the rear sight on a rifle just gets in the way.

 

[shane a gress]

I bought my tulle in the early 90's. I didn't know anything about a smoothbore. I just loaded and shot. I had to shoot a lot to learn how to sight straight down the barrel. I didn't give much thought to how accurate it was. Just point and shoot. I have gotten deer from 10 yards to 100, standing and running. I can only remember missing a deer once maybe twice. As I get older and eyesight not as good as it used to be i realize the advantage of no rear sight.

 

[bigted]

I believe that this expectation gets to us all time to time.

The question of what constitutes accuracy.

Is it minute of angle? ... maybe. Is it minute of pie plate? ... maybe.

As with beauty ... it is all in the eye of the beholder.

A meat hunter is satisfied with a pie plate ... 8 inch ... group at 75 or 100 yards. These groups have brought home backstrap for century's.

A dedicated to semi dedicated target shooter is horrified with anything group wise that wonders larger then an inch at 100 yards.

Our forefathers that were remembered as super hunters were less marksmen then they were woodsmen that understood the game, woods, and what is required for basic survival.

Super small groups are NOT required to bag game animals. Never has been! Snipers may be hunters but hunters not necesarilly snipers. Lets be clear here, the humane area of killing a small deer or pig is in the 8 to 12 inch size when shooting a large enough ball to do the " shot to the lights" kill shot.

Small game and birds has historically been taken with smooth bores shooting shot at under 40 paces.

Many meals have been eaten with these smooth bore guns. Both large game and small along with birds of any kind. Tons of smoke n sparks have been ejected from these weapons in fun and education.

Accuracy ... what is your use and expectant needs? Craft your gun and capability's using this measure. Smooth bore guns of all kinds have been in service for far more time and survival seasons then any suspect.

Customize your weapon for your needs and expectations. Smooth bores will serve accurately for most uses and REAL expectations now as have for the century's past.

 

[Tb54]

I want the best accuracy possible with the gun I have. I did not take a shot at a nice buck two years ago because he was in brush, 80 yds away, and my only target was about half the width of the white patch of his neck, square. With my other rifle I would have gotten him, but I wasn’t confident that I could sneak the shot through the brush, so I waited for him to take a step foreword. He didn’t. He took a step backward, turned and disappeared. No meat.

 

[bigted]

It happens. I applaud your restraint to be an honest and ethical hunter

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Any comment on NW trade gun accuracy, the kind mountain men might have carried? I'm looking into obtaining a .58 caliber (24 gauge?) gun because I have a .58 caliber rifle too.