Smoothbore at 100 m

[ntech]

I've read many myths about how inaccurate smoothbore musket is.Many of them claims that its impossible to hit man size target at 100m.I've decided to check it myself.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_kY3ZKRpY[/youtube]

Here is small video about results.
Load was 90 grns of bp and .675 ball with patch.
I was aiming at head of silhouette in middle.
Next time I'll try to do some progress in accuracy

 

[grizzly adam]

Nice video, and interesting results.

It would be nice to see what the result would be if someone would try the same thing benched, using an arm with a faster lock-time than yours.

 

[BillinOregon]

Sebastian: Very interesting clip. Your off-hand form looks solid, with excellent follow-through. Tell us more about your flintlock.

 

[tg]

I would be fairly confident in hitting a mansized target with my Fusil most of the time at 100 yds with a patched ball, I think the hits would drop off useing the typical bare ball and wadding used in the past in the smoothguns, setting up several rows of man sized target and then shooting with ball or buck and ball would give an example of what the "kill/injured" ratio to shots taken.

 

[Mike Brooks]

That gun has a horrible hang fire! It would be really hard to shoot a good group with that slow of ignition. I'd consider a vent liner for sure.

 

[sffar]

Thanks for the video. Not bad. I wouldn't hunt with that accuracy, but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of it, either!

 

[Black Hand]

It can be done with practice. Keep in mind that many of the battles were fought in ranks and volley fire was the norm. Under those conditions, you could more easily hit a man-sized target at 100m but it might not be the one you aimed at.....

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I don't know guys, out of five shots he hit the actual target aimed at 3 times. The hangfire was a little disconcerting but for an "as issue musket", not bad. Sebastian, in my experience, and at just over 100 yards, darn good shooting!

 

[J.D.]

Sebastian,

I have to say that you have excellent form and follow through. If you are shooting a 75 cal, 19 mm musket, I suggest shooting a larger ball.

IMHO, a .715, 18.161 mm, ball with .020, 0.508 mm, patch will shoot a much better group. Friends and I consistently hit an 18 inch, 45.72 cm, diameter steel gong at 100 yards, off hand, so better accuracy is possible.

Mike's advise on working on the touch hole is also appropriate...and will improve groups considerably. Even with excellent form, one needs a fast firing piece to shoot well.

God Bless,
J.D.

 

[ntech]

Thanks for responses.My gun is Pedersoli's French Corrige AN IX musket in .69 cal.I use .675 diameter ball and thin patch (I don't really know thicknes).I've tried to make ignition faster, I always use pin to close vent hole, but problem still occurs.I know that ignition speed is most important and I have to improve it.
Anyway I was very satisfied with such result

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Sebastian,
Just how large is the group you fired?
(Too long to download video on phone line.)
Best Wishes

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Neat video, thanks for sharing.

You my friend, have a very steady offhand aim and great follow through. Would not want you to have singled me out for attention on the field of battle. :v

 

[ronrryan]

To my eye it looked like one shot, might have been no. 4, had a bit faster ignition than the others. Form good, as noted, as was followthrough. What did you prime with? (2f,3f,4f) And what is the diameter of the vent hole? Tinkering and adjusting can improve the grouping. Good smoke, Ron in FL

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

Watching the video I thought the same thing. I would not be able to hit anything with that hang fire.

 

[J.D.]

I would not be able to hit anything with that hang fire.

No to marginalize Sebastian's form and follow through, but anyone, with enough good practice can duplicate that excellent form and follow through. Sebastian has just had more goodpractice than most of us.

Sebastian,
Do you have a micrometer, or small drill bits? If we knew the diameter of the touch hole, and other information, like location of the touch hole in relation to the pan, we might be able to help with ignition.

Still good shooting, considering the slow ignition, the range, weather, and no rear sight.

Have you tried a smaller ball and thicker patch? Or, just a thicker patch with the existing ball diameter?

 

[Many Klatch]

Sebastian: Great shooting. Your form and follow through are great. The hangfire is a little disconcerting but you certainly seem to be able to get through it.

It would be interesting to see how well you could do off a bench rest.

If that was my gun, I'd probably enlarge the touch hole. My Bess has a touch hole that will fit a 5/64" drill bit. Sorry I don't know what that is in millimeters. My Pedersoli Brown Bess goes off very quickly with 2F in the pan. I have won a few matches against rifle shooters with it.

Many Klatch

 

[grizzly adam]

I've tried to make ignition faster, I always use pin to close vent hole, but problem still occurs.

Sebastion, I don't know what you mean by "using a pin to close vent hole", but if you mean you use a pick to poke grains of powder into the vent (which isn't all that uncommon), thinking that will speed ignition, you're actually SLOWING DOWN the ignition by blocking the vent with powder.

Again, I don't know what you meant, but I've run into a number of gents who do that, or who "prime the nipple" on caplocks in attempts to ensure fast ignition. ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Doing so will invariably slow ignition.

Assuming your lock functions correctly, that you're using a properly sharp flint, and that good sparks fall in the right place, there are a number of things that can affect ignition in your flintlock, namely these, among others:

1. Type of vent (straight or coned)
2. Size of vent (diameter, if straight)
3. Position of vent relative to pan
4. Amount of priming powder
5. Type of priming powder
6. Position of priming powder in pan
7. Picking vent to clear channel
8. Moon phase
9. Position of the earth relative to Mars
10. Holding your mouth just right

All of these factors (especially 8-10) work together in ignition speed.

Ideally, for fastest ignition, you want a coned vent positioned at or just below the top level of the pan, picked for a clear flash to main charge, primed with a small amount of 4f powder, positioned in the pan away from the vent hole.

Note: All bets are off during the full moon, when the Earth is farthest away from Mars, and when you're not holding your mouth shut. :wink:

 

[nw_hunter]

Talk about steady! One thing the hang fire shows.
You don't flinch. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of your off hand shooting, especially if you had a faster lock time.

 

[tecum-tha]

Do the Pedersoli Muskets have a patented breach also or are they made like real flintlock barrels? Just curious because there is a barrel up for auction and I have no clue about the interior setup of the barrel. It is a 0.69 cal also.Any idea?

 

[Dphar]

I don't know guys, out of five shots he hit the actual target aimed at 3 times. The hangfire was a little disconcerting but for an "as issue musket", not bad. Sebastian, in my experience, and at just over 100 yards, darn good shooting!

He hit the part that counted once. One might have hit a leg.
The accuracy of the issue SB musket with issue ammunition is well documented by military officers at the time. This test is typical in its result. Remember that from the military stand point the misses may well have hit someone in the rear ranks and this was just as good as hitting the front rank.
I am fairly certain that I can hit a man silhouette every shot at 100 with a 50 cal smooth rifle I have. But ball size, patch thickness and powder charge are all critical. Use a 490 ball and lighter loads and it will not kill a rabbit every shot at 25 yards.
But back in the day a good shot could do about as well at 300 with a rifle using a rest. Head shots were considered doable at 200 and my testing has confirmed this though with modern barrels.
Having shot an original 1814 Common Rifle I would guess the slow ignition was "typical".
Other than for use on rather large novelty targets at matches the smoothbore is about a 50-75 yard gun.

Dan