Smoothbore gurus.......I need a little help with a roundball load

[Ricochet]

Total newbie to smoothbore roundball shooting!! I have only used shot on squirrels to this point but really want to use it for deer. I started with 70 grains of 2f, two thin cards, bare ball, and 2 more thin cards at 25 yards from a rest. Complete miss. I tried again thinking that I may have moved but same result. I then tried the same powder charge with a bear grease lubed patched roundball. Directly in line vertically but about 6" low. I tried two more times and got all three balls to touch but they are about 6" low. Time ran out and I had to stop for the day. I feel good about the shots touching and I think that I am onto something but would like to hear what an experienced roundball shooter's next steps would be. Take a fuller sight picture with the front sights? Im sighting down the flat of the octagon part of the barrel and can see the whole front sight. I am then putting the bullseye on top of the post. Heavier charge? Will a heavier charge will bring impact up enough to get a reliable shot out to 50 yds or more? Not trying to take shortcuts, just trying to save some of these balls if I can.

My measurements are as follows:

Bore: .615"
Ball: .595"
Patch: ??" (Joannes blue pillow ticking) Getting a correct measurement on this is a guess it seems because it measures around .020" when the micrometer touches it and I can compress it passed .010" so I guess my question is how do I measure this accurately? The load is pretty tight to get down the bore, I have to hit it with my palm pretty good to get it going but once it starts its not really difficult to finish with the ramrod.

 

[Ricochet]

I do have a mold for it but it is a .575" mold.

 

[megasupermagnum]

While I like thin cards for shot, they don't work well with balls, and really not that great with buckshot either. Really 2 thin card wads with a bare ball is doing nothing, you may as well have just seated the ball right on the powder. Instead, try a number of felt wads, I'd start with three 1/8" thick felt wads, cut with a 5/8" punch. It might be worth even trying 3/4". It's worth trying some felt wads even with a patched ball.

Then the second problem if you get them to group good is to get them POA/POI. That can be tricky. 6" low at 25 yards is a lot to overcome. You can try going up in powder, but I'm not sure it will do it. If you are willing to modify the gun, it's easy. All you need is a rear sight, say a tang mounted peep. All you need is a taller rear sight.

 

[Ricochet]

Thank you for your suggestions, I really appreciate it!

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yeah, two cards weren't enough. Stick to the patch if it shot well. Don't worry about the thickness of the patch other than for your own records . You though do want it to load easily!
For the hold, just see more barrel. Most fowling guns or shotguns shoot a ball low when the shooter gets down low.

 

[JohnL]

I tried wonder wads with some luck with a patched .690” lrb in my Pedersoli Classic .12 gauge. It started shooting well with 80 grains FFG. With a .010” patch, that lrb will slide right out my barrel though. I ended up with a .015” patch.

 

[French Colonial]

Or.....

Type in flexing a barrel in the search function, that should keep you busy for awhile

 

[roundballman]

My 58 smoothbore shoots best with powder, 125 card wad, 1/2" lubed cushion wad, and .010 patch around 562 ball. Mine was also shooting low until I flexed the barrel. There are many posts about flexing the barrel. Read those before trying it.

 

[Nuthatch]

I’m new to the smoothie as well. But loading mine just like a rifle with the same patch combo makes it shoot pretty much like a rifle.

If your shot is low and you have a front post, you’ll need to file it down to raise the POI. Or you can do Kentucky windage/holdover. On a deer-sized target, it isn’t too hard. Smaller targets are much more difficult.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My measurements are as follows:

Bore: .615"
Ball: .595"
Patch: ??" (Joannes blue pillow ticking) Getting a correct measurement on this is a guess it seems because it measures around .020" when the micrometer touches it and I can compress it passed .010" so I guess my question is how do I measure this accurately? The load is pretty tight to get down the bore, I have to hit it with my palm pretty good to get it going but once it starts its not really difficult to finish with the ramrod.

..., I do have a mold for it but it is a .575" mold.

So I think you're maybe getting inconsistent torque on the ball when it exits, and I know you're getting inconsistent placement when you load because that cloth patch doesn't fold the same way twice, and depending on how "thin" are the cards if the powder isn't exactly level, that's likely imparting deflection too.

STILL it might not be that bad. Do you get a group anywhere? So go to your local Dollar Store, and buy a roll of gift wrap paper. Take it to the range and use the white underside, as a backing for your target but use a LOT of it... Make it wide and tall as you can. THEN see where you hit. IF you actually get a 4" group or so at 25 yards, but way off your point of aim, then you have a sight picture problem. Correct the sight picture and you will be good to 50 yards.

It's not cheating to install a temporary rear sight at your tang bolt...

I think also you will do better with a paper cartridge, thus...

Take a 5/8th wooden dowel, and sand it until you can slip in into the muzzle of the gun without force but just inside, no wiggle.
THEN you wrap it with the paper that you will use to make cartridges and check the fit..., it should now be too big....
Next you sand the wooden dowel more, and keep checking the barrel-fit with paper wrapped around the dowel..., when the paper wrapped dowel just fits within the bore without force, you're ready. This dowel is now custom fit to the ball and to your barrel.

Make a paper cartridge with a closed end, and put the ball within. Make sure IF there is a sprue, that the sprue is up. Make several of these and you can apply some lube to the outside of the tube if you wish.

Take them to the range, and test them with your load. These often give the shooter a consistent ball location as the paper is the same around the outside of the ball each time. An actual wad between the powder and the paper/ball cartridge may also be needed.

You can do the same procedure for the dowel for the .575 ball. You will get higher muzzle velocity and that is more than enough lead to down a deer, as long as you can get it to go where you aim. Mark this dowel so you don't confuse this with the dowel for the slightly larger ball....

You can also use the .575 ball for a few military cartridges and test them by firing at several targets in a line. You make the cartridges the very similar to the diameter of the .575 ball, so they are loose when you load, but that would allow you 250 years ago to speed load lots of shots without having to swab the barrel. You can then see for yourself why smoothbores with military ammo were "inaccurate". (Maybe wait until powder is more available, say next August or later ??? )

LD

 

[poker]

I have never tried this, but have been thinking about it. How would one of those super strong magnets, say around 1/4-3/8” thick work? Grind it to exact width of your barrel and file a sight notch in it. It should stay put yet be removable with no mechanical connection. Being same width as barrel accuracy should be repeatable.

 

[French Colonial]

I use a patched round ball in my Caywood and it shoots great, give it a try.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I have never tried this, but have been thinking about it. How would one of those super strong magnets, say around 1/4-3/8” thick work? Grind it to exact width of your barrel and file a sight notch in it. It should stay put yet be removable with no mechanical connection. Being same width as barrel accuracy should be repeatable.

It would never work. I doubt they would even hold on a 22LR.

 

[Grenadier1758]

It would take about three magnets to form the base the sight. I think Muzzleblasts had an article with plans for such a sight.

 

[megasupermagnum]

"plans for such a sight"

They were only plans because if they tried it, it would not work. Granted, if you stick enough rare earth magnets to the barrel, eventually they will handle recoil, 1 or 2 will not do it. I have a hard enough time getting regular slide adjustable sights to stay in place.

There's only a few good ways to mount sights that I have ever found. #1 threaded hole #2 dovetail or similar #3 clamp on. There's simply not enough there for tape, magnet or glue to hold a sight on. There is a fourth way I know to mount sights, but it wouldn't apply in this case, as they are permanent (without risk of finish damage), and that is soldering on. A good epoxy like JB weld MIGHT work, but I've also seen more often than not they pop off eventually.

 

[Maven]

Total newbie to smoothbore roundball shooting!! I have only used shot on squirrels to this point but really want to use it for deer. I started with 70 grains of 2f, two thin cards, bare ball, and 2 more thin cards at 25 yards from a rest. Complete miss. I tried again thinking that I may have moved but same result. I then tried the same powder charge with a bear grease lubed patched roundball. Directly in line vertically but about 6" low. I tried two more times and got all three balls to touch but they are about 6" low. Time ran out and I had to stop for the day. I feel good about the shots touching and I think that I am onto something but would like to hear what an experienced roundball shooter's next steps would be. Take a fuller sight picture with the front sights? Im sighting down the flat of the octagon part of the barrel and can see the whole front sight. I am then putting the bullseye on top of the post. Heavier charge? Will a heavier charge will bring impact up enough to get a reliable shot out to 50 yds or more? Not trying to take shortcuts, just trying to save some of these balls if I can.

My measurements are as follows:

Bore: .615"
Ball: .595"
Patch: ??" (Joannes blue pillow ticking) Getting a correct measurement on this is a guess it seems because it measures around .020" when the micrometer touches it and I can compress it passed .010" so I guess my question is how do I measure this accurately? The load is pretty tight to get down the bore, I have to hit it with my palm pretty good to get it going but once it starts its not really difficult to finish with the ramrod.

My SB's bore dimension is similar to yours, and the patched .595" RB works well for me. That being said, let me add that patch thickness is less important in a SB than a rifle since there's no rifling for the patch to expand into. What's more important is the powder charge and granulation you're using. E.g., I typically use 65gr. - 70gr. FFg at 25 yd, but 90gr. at 50 yd., but you'll need to experiment with these charges in your SB. I am attaching a target fired with nominally .595" RB's + .014" pillow ticking and 70gr. FFg @ 25 yd. from a SB with no rear sight.

 

[Heyyou48307]

Put the base of the sight on the bull. Most old guns front sight are filed right down

 

[sportster73hp]

I believe your cheekweld is most important. You have no reference for a rear sight and your eye is just looking at the front post. Try raising your head on the stock or adding something to it to bring bring your line of sight up.

 

[hanshi]

I use a .600" ball, "around a .015" or so patch and 70 grains of 3F for deer. Anywhere from 60 grns to 75 grns does very well in my gun. I have a rear sight mounted on mine and it's no different from loading/shooting a rifle. Three shot groups average just under 3" at 50 yards.

 

[Timber Wolf]

I have an aftermarket 20 gauge barrel (no rear sight) on a T/C Hawken stock and from the bench it was dead on for windage but way off (can’t remember which direction) for elevation. But when I stood up and just threw it up to my shoulder and fired it with a good cheek-weld it was pretty close (25 yards) even though I was looking at a lot of rib. I figure if it shoots close to point of aim where I naturally hold it that is good enough.