Smoothbore Paper Cartidges

[Tower75]

Hi guys,

Before anything - Merry Christmas.

I was wondering if I may ask, has anyone got any plans/"blueprints" for making up some military-style paper-cartridges for a smoothbore musket?

I like shooting my Bess "the proper way" but I can't seem to make a decent paper-cartridge, they all turn into this mess of string, lead and paper, and the power keeps falling out.

I'm quite hot at making paprer-cartridges for the P1853 Enfield rifle-musket, but can never get the hang of smooth-bore cartridges.

Cheers, guys
Regards
T

 

[R-71]

http://www.11thpa.org/how_to.html#2

I used the forms/instructions found here, the cartrdges are not a whole lot different than CW cartridges other than the size.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Where do you put the lead ball? And what diameter ball do you use for the Brown Bess, and what for the Charleville? Thanks.

 

[Stumpkiller]

That info was for non-projectile reenactments.

I used a similar system, but set the ball on the end of the dowel (mine was a 16 bore and took a 0.648" ball) when rolling it in onion skin typewriter paper. I twisted and tied the end with sting (English method of cartridges) pulled out the dowel, dipped the tied end w/ball in molten beeswax, added powder after it had hardned and folded the paper in and then over on itself. For hunting I put waxed paper over a dowel and pushed that into the cartridge before adding the podwer to make a water resistant inner powder chamber.

To load you bite off the folded end, pour in the powder, push the ball and paper in (tied end first was more accurate for me, but tie-up probably more authentic and quicker) and ram it down. Also more authentic but less safe is to pour the prime into the pan and close the frizzen before dumping the rest down the bore. Frowned on by many now.

You need enough paper for 2-1/2 wraps of the ball and about 4" tall, the angle (as shown in the images above) makes it easier to roll and handle.

 

[KentG]

Based on archeology and surviving examples, the ball diameter for the military loads of the Bess (.75) run from .69 to .72, with the .70 to be an "average." French, and later US standard was .65 for the .69 muskets.

A lot of the "windage" is taken up by the paper wrapping of the cartridge, which went down the barrelwith the ball after priming the pan and dumping the main charge down the muzzle.

The "trick" is finding suitable paper. Period paper had a high rag content, which allows more twist on the end and tying tight without tearing. I also find that the French method of pasting the end instead of twist and tie works better with modern papers. I also use a dab of paste along the seam of the paper cartridge body to keep it tighter to prevent powder sifting through.

 

[ericb]

This is from Pickering, who served in the Continental Army and wound up eventually become Chief of Ordinance.
http://ccv.northwestcompany.com/bsa.htm

This is the British Style, which he recommended. For the .69 Charleville he recommended a 1 oz ball, which is 16 gauge/.662, which is what I use in my Charleville. You can go a little bigger, but things can get tight if you're doing a lot of shooting, but if you go much smaller, accuracy can begin to suffer, at least that's been my experience. Also, like Stumpy, I dip the ends in a mix of Beeswax and Olive or Castor Oil. Ratio of wax to oil varies, depending on Hot or Cold Weather....
Eric

These are loaded with 80gr. 2F - the Brown ones are Buck & Ball:

Takes a little practice to get the knack of it, and the British Cartridge is probably one of the more complicated ones, but I like them, and find the making of them to be good therapy.

Eric

 

[ericb]

PS - Here's the French Style:
http://www.nwta.com/couriers/9-96/cartridge.html

Let us know how you get on. Muskets & Paper Cartridges go together like Corn on the Cob & Butter....

Eric

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Thank you all for the really great info! I am going to have my participants make these with me. Extra fun! Thanks.

 

[Ranger1759]

I just made up a batch last night for my .62/20g...Ill have to get some photos on here...like it was said, once you get the hang of it, it take no time at all....I did 20 in about that many minutes...

Ranger

 

[Ranger1759]

Well here my way....might not be the best, but it works and its easy!

Ranger

 

[R-71]

There is also this place:
http://www.najecki.com/40thfoot/Cartridge1.html

I have used both patterns that I provided. I have a small plastic hollow tube that holds a 715 Round ball perfectly on the end. I roll as indicated and tie off, twist the ball so it is seperated from the powder charge and charge the ctg with 100grns of 2f. I use 4F priming powder in a little measure so I don't need any extra powder for that purpose.

I have no affiliation with either of the units that I have posted the links for. I just blundered into them while looking for this info a few years back. I think I found this site around the same time as well.

Good shooting!

 

[Tower75]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Lots of good info - and thankyou for the pics.

ericb - may I ask, looks like your cartridges are tied with string, but the string doesn't "close" the ball cavity from the powder charge, looks like it just tightens up the two sections, is there beneftis to this, I always thought that the string should be pulled so that is closes up the powder and ball sections? :idunno: Also, the end, where the ball is, isn't completely closed, again, is there a benefit to this - doesn't the ball fall out?

Regards
T

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Here is another site that gives you measurements. As you can see folks pretty much do it the same way if you compare previous posts. I use thicker book paper from an old, used book myself, and when doing live rounds instead of crimping, I use a piece of cotton twine to tie the end shut.

Rolling Cartridges Part 1

Part 2

LD

 

[Stumpkiller]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Lots of good info - and thankyou for the pics.

ericb - may I ask, looks like your cartridges are tied with string, but the string doesn't "close" the ball cavity from the powder charge, looks like it just tightens up the two sections, is there beneftis to this, I always thought that the string should be pulled so that is closes up the powder and ball sections? :idunno:

Looks great his way, but I tied mine fully closed (surgeon's knot) and then used a seperate piece of cotton string to just make a slight waist, like his show behind the ball and ahead of the powder.

 

[poordevil]

Where do you put the lead ball? And what diameter ball do you use for the Brown Bess, and what for the Charleville? Thanks.

In the Guns and Ammo mag that is out now , Garry James does a side by side comparison, shooting of original Brown Bess and Charleville.

 

[target man]

hi
i didnt understand how you load that cartrgige in the barrel ?

you scrach the paper and let fall the stuff in the barrel
or slide the all thing in the barrel? if so ,

how coul the priming pan could ingited the powder in the paper?


target man

 

[KentG]

You tear off the "tail" of the cartridge with your teeth. Look up a period military manual, it describes holding the cartridge between thumb and forefinger just at the top of the powder, flick the folded (tucked) tail up with thumb, carry to mouth, tear off with teeth. Left hand holding musket. pour priming into pan, close pan, put musket butt on ground, pour remainder of powder into barrel, insert paper and ball remainder, ram in two motions. Ready to fire.

If you don't have front teeth on top and bottom, you can't do it!

No need to separate powder from ball, as the powder is shaken out of the tube before the tube and ball are inserted.

Sloppy, but fast, which is what the military wanted - 3 shots per minute, accuracy? Minute of man is good enough at 50 yards.

 

[target man]

You tear off the "tail" of the cartridge with your teeth. Look up a period military manual, it describes holding the cartridge between thumb and forefinger just at the top of the powder, flick the folded (tucked) tail up with thumb, carry to mouth, tear off with teeth. Left hand holding musket. pour priming into pan, close pan, put musket butt on ground, pour remainder of powder into barrel, insert paper and ball remainder, ram in two motions. Ready to fire.

If you don't have front teeth on top and bottom, you can't do it!

No need to separate powder from ball, as the powder is shaken out of the tube before the tube and ball are inserted.

Sloppy, but fast, which is what the military wanted - 3 shots per minute, accuracy? Minute of man is good enough at 50 yards.

à

ok its just like the modern ready loading pack with bullet,


tanks
target man

 

[ericb]

You'll find, Tower, that as you tighten the string around the top of the Ball that it will cinch tight around the Sprue - that Ball ain't goin' anywhere. Also, although it's not clear in the link, there is a fold made over the top (concave portion) of the dowel as the paper is first begun to roll, the Ball is put in place, and then the tube is rolled the rest of the way. Once the ball is inserted and rolled up, it is totally encapsulated in Paper, and remains separate from the charge. The tying off at the waist simply snugs thing up more, and makes the round a little bit more integral for long periods of rough transport, whether by Cart, Pack, or Ship.

I don't chase the cartridge with thread all the way to the end & then tie of the charge, prefering instead to simply pleat & fold the tail, which makes it easier for me to grab and tear with the teeth, IMHO.

You'll find with practice, as you learn to PULL & not YANK the string, that you can go with thinner & thinner thread without breaking it. I use a pretty thin cotton embroidery floss - not much thicker than ordinary sewing thread. Make sure you "Beeswax well the Floss", otherwise it's very hard to keep things tight & neat.

In formal "Arsenal" level production, the initial tightning/cinching of the paper around the top off the ball is made much easier by using a fairly stout string anchored to a board/bench on one end, with a little Handle on the other. With the stout string you can pull the paper very tight, and when the string is released the paper remains tightly pleated. You then follow up with with the thinner cartridge thread. Sounds complicated, but is actually fairly straightforward, and very fast from a production standpoint. Pickering once based some calculations on the assumption that a Boy (pre-child labor laws)could be assumed to make 800-1000 cartridges a day. I personally find this pretty hard to imagine, although I suppose if you had an "Assembly Line" going, with one person rolling/cinching ball, next one finishing with Cartridge Thread, next one pouring charge, folding tail, etc, it might be possible. It goes without saying that if one was turning out cartridges at that rate, they might not exactly be the prettiest things in the world.

I used to have a link showing the Cinching jig I mentioned, but that link seems to be no longer working. I'll see if I can come up with something.

Remember, there's more than one way to skin a Cat - what I've told you is just one way. And like everything else, it takes a little practice...

Eric

 

[ericb]

Here's som Pics, Tower. I apologize for the quality and lighting. Done with Cell Phone:

(1) Here's the fold over the concave end of Dowel at begining of roll:

(2) The Ball in place before rolling the rest of the way:

(3) Heres a shot of the "Cinching Board" I told you about - made from one of my wife's cutting Boards (Don't tell her). Not Historically Correct, but I used Monofiliment Bowstring Serving for the chord on this, connected to T-Handle. Very slick, and strong - I get a really tight pleat around top of Ball:

(4)The Pleat after Cinching - note how paper prety much "remembers" & stays in place - now can be finish-tied with thinner Cartridge Thread:

(5) Remember the little fold over the Dowel before rolling? Here's a cartridge I snipped, after tying off top and bottom of Ball, exposing underside of Ball. Note Ball is completely surrounded by paper. This was done in an earlier session, using .004" brown Liquor Store Bag - very tough stuff...

Hope this helps - a lot of this may seem like Greek at the moment, and there's a lot of tricks to learn, but as you go along you'll develop a feel for it, and come up with your own techniques...and remember, they don't have to be gorgeous to work. I've shot my share of rolled up toilet paper turd-looking things, and they worked just fine. I like the British type Round cuz I enjoy the process, kinda like tyin' a nice fly....

Eric