Smoothbores....

[RussB]

They're both good. There ain't no fleas on the Rifle or the Smoothbore, they're both good.
Ones personal preference is sure to surface, so permit me to put it another way..............
I you had choice of only one, between a Smooth-bore of say 70 cal, or a Rifle in your favorite caliber, and this choice depended on your survival, and you'd be provided all the accrutimens to last you for 6 months, which one would you choose?
Walk softly and carry a big ol' Smoothbore!!

 

[Brokennock]

They're both good. There ain't no fleas on the Rifle or the Smoothbore, they're both good.
Ones personal preference is sure to surface, so permit me to put it another way..............
I you had choice of only one, between a Smooth-bore of say 70 cal, or a Rifle in your favorite caliber, and this choice depended on your survival, and you'd be provided all the accrutimens to last you for 6 months, which one would you choose?
Walk softly and carry a big ol' Smoothbore!!

As much as I advocate for a smoothbore, mostly for it's versatility, if I can add one factor to your proposition, I might go with a rifle instead.
If I take your scenario and add that there are no legal restrictions on caliber for different game to be taken, and, that the population is low enough and land is unoccupied enough to make it safe to use a rifle in places now restricted to shotguns due to possible over travel of a rifle shot,,,,,, well,,,, now I might just go with a .45 caliber flintlock longrifle.
It will work fine for squirrel with a careful shot, and turkey should be no problem, deer fall to it all the time, other small game would be a viable option under the conditions I added.
Clearly under this scenario we are strictly meat hunting, so shooting pheasant, partridge, and such on the ground would be acceptable.

Once we change things to sport and needing to wing shoot birds, or conditions are unsafe to shoot squirrels in trees with a rifle,,,, well,,, sorry to the troll,,,, a smoothbore wins for versatility.

 

[pab1]

They're both good. There ain't no fleas on the Rifle or the Smoothbore, they're both good.
Ones personal preference is sure to surface, so permit me to put it another way..............
I you had choice of only one, between a Smooth-bore of say 70 cal, or a Rifle in your favorite caliber, and this choice depended on your survival, and you'd be provided all the accrutimens to last you for 6 months, which one would you choose?
Walk softly and carry a big ol' Smoothbore!!

I like both rifles and smoothbores. In that scenario, one thing I would consider would be the weight of the accoutrements. I can get by using a lot less lead with a rifle than with a smoothbore. When I compare my .62 smoothbore to my .54 rifle, I get one shot out of 1 oz of lead with the .62 while with a rifle I get two shots with the same amount of lead. Not a big deal if you are caching your components but if you have to carry it, that would make a big difference. Personally I would go with a rifle.

 

[Sun City]

Yeah....I'm a TROLL! US Army type!

Got you fellows talking to.......didn't I??

IMG_0677 by Sharps Man, on Flickr

 

[Robby]

Yer frissons' broke!!!!!
Robby

 

[tenngun]

Yeah....I'm a TROLL! US Army type!

Got you fellows talking to.......didn't I??

IMG_0677 by Sharps Man, on Flickr

Army, .
I reckon we can forgive a ground pounder, as they’re usually’ teched ‘in the head
( thank you for your service from a bubble head squid)

 

[toot]

If you say so.
I mean I look real sad, dejected and almost suicidal.
View attachment 168300
Whilst your dreaming of your next deer hunt I'm probably out there already!

so does the dog! lol!

 

[Packrat]

I do like the idea of a SxS, rifled on one side. At ny age weight woud be a consideration

 

[Whiteoak15]

I deer hunt in my back yard!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on Flickr

From what I can see over your shoulder, you have a mighty BIG back yard! Congratulations!!!

 

[Nor'Easter]

My guess is that if you could time travel to a frontier tavern on Friday / Saturday night you would hear the same arguments being made as are being made here in this thread. Probably best to go to the oldest guy in the room and see what he carries? I think I remember seeing a picture of Bill Sewall, Teddy Roosevelt's Maine guide and friend in a parlor photo. He was leaning on a long barreled fowler, converted to percussion, and the comment was that it was his preferred gun. Don't hold me to it, because I just tried to find the photo on line and could not.

 

[11Bravo]

I found this thread most interesting, especially when you had only one fire arm to carry. Didn't most soil busters that were not wealthy have just a smooth bore? My own experience dictated that after I made Sgt. in combat I had to give up my beloved pig. The down side of that stripe was I now walked point and as it was my choice I carried a pump 12 bore. My choice was a smooth bore in that life or death application.

 

[brazosland]

I have a serious question - I don't think it's off topic. With a smoothbore do you ever find yourself with the "wrong" load in your gun? Here's what I mean:
Let's say today you want to hunt rabbits (just for the sake of argument) so you load your smoothbore with shot. You go about hunting but are unlucky and don't find a rabbit to shoot. Tomorrow you go dinking around a deer provides a shot - but your gun is loaded with shot...

I understand loading for what you are hunting. I carry my ML every time I'm at the ranch. My English sporter has two barrels - one smooth and one rifled. I sometimes find when I have the smooth barrel loaded with shot I wish I had the rifle. Other times it's the other way and I have a 550 grain roundball loaded when I wish it was a load of #7 shot.

Do you ever find yourself in this conundrum?

Two years ago I killed a hog with my 26” barreled Wilson’s Chief gun. I was squirrel hunting when the opportunity arose as the hogs ate acorns in front of me.

I used the ball puller to pull out the lubed over-shot wad, dumped the shot on the ground and rammed home a patched ball from a block. Easy shot at 45 yards.

Never practiced that, but had given it consideration once or twice, so it was easy to execute.

That gun will stack balls at 50 into 3” groups all day. My newest English Fowler/smooth rifle is fully bedded from nose cap to breech plug and it literally puts balls on top of each other at 50 yards…amazing to me.

 

[GBG]

. . . a highly-serviceable double-barreled gun belonging to M’Kay, of the best possible pattern for general use in that country. It was as thick in the metal as a rifle, and carried a bullet accurately to more than a hundred yards, . . .

I was going to ask how the "smooth rifle" would fit into this discussion, but I think your quote answered that question. I have long lusted for a "cape gun" with one rifled and one smooth bore barrel, but I'd never thought about a double smooth rifle.

Could the excellent RB accuracy (apparently with either barrel) be attributed in part to the rigidity of the thick barrels? Have there been any tests comparing the accuracy of a light barreled smooth bore with a roughly equivalent smooth rifle?

BTW, great thread, I've learned a lot in a short time. Thanks Sun City.

Edit: just saw your post brazosland and I think you answered my other two questions. The stock and barrel fit is probably far more important with lighter barrels, smooth or rifled.

 

[brazosland]

Muzzle loading to me means rifles......not a shotgun or gizmo all- purpose thingamajig that is limited to accuracy and quite often in the hands of the user thereof a losing situation from an odd fitting ball/balls lumbering down a smooth tube or shot wad designed for 40 yards at best for maybe shooting ducks! Something supposedly designed for multiple use in many cases is capability limited and this is my view of a shotgun.....or so-called smooth bore muzzleloader! Hey......I'm proud some folks like 'em but I'm pretty certain when Daniel left home on a long trek he was toting a rifle!

Not sure I agree with your last point, or even most of your points.

On the Boone issue I just finished a great book on him and in it was relayed a story about the siege of Boone’s Burrough.

An Indian was high in a tree lobing round balls into the fort from over 200 yards away and Boone had to call for someone to bring a rifle to him so he could attempt the shot.

Smooth rifles were very common in that day, and I suspect he appreciated their advantages as much as the next frontiersman.

 

[brazosland]

Yeah but we ain't trashing your rifle are we now

It’s a half-stock flint Hawkin…entire threads get derailed right there!

 

[GBG]

The remarkable thing is the combo is actually more accurate and shoots a tighter pattern than either by themselves.

Thank you Nor'Easter. You've answered another of my long-standing questions. I've often wondered what effect a RB or large buckshot "breaking the wind" (no pun or offence intended) ahead of smaller shot would have on patterns. I was just too uncertain what this load might do to pressure in the barrel to try it.

 

[Redlemur60]

Untill kibler makes a trade gun or FOWLER im getting a smooth barrel for my 58 colonial,and 320 seems reasonable!i needs me some smoothie!

 

[deerstalkert]

.36 over 20g circa 1840

 

[11Bravo]

.36 over 20g circa 1840
View attachment 168542

That combo has me scratching my head, the .36 for the small game and 20ga loaded with a PRB? Now .45 over 20ga makes more sense to me JMO. But a nice one to own.

 

[Nor'Easter]

Thank you Nor'Easter. You've answered another of my long-standing questions. I've often wondered what effect a RB or large buckshot "breaking the wind" (no pun or offence intended) ahead of smaller shot would have on patterns. I was just too uncertain what this load might do to pressure in the barrel to try it.

* A person would have to do their own math, but this is how I figured it. The roundball is about 267 grains and the 7/8 oz shot is about 382 grains for a total of 549 grains. I've had conicals in .54 cal that weighed that much - and I shot those with 90gr 2f (yes they hurt, but they hit like the hammer of Thor!).
* Sam Fadala's book is useful for its pressure readings. The highest black powder ml pressures he records are +/- 30,000 psi. For reference a .58 cal 1:48 twist shooting a 560gr T/C Maxi Hunter and GOEX 2f powder - 60gr = 9300psi, 90gr=11,200psi, 120gr=15,300psi, 140gr=18,000psi. For ME, I've chosen +/- 15,000psi as a safe max load in a modern / well made ml. As you can see, my load is roughly 10,000psi and I am comfortable with that. Powder brand and granulation should also be taken into account.
* My guess on the improved shot pattern is that it is essentially the same physics at work that makes the "Skychief load' work. Essentially he has said that the wetter the cushion wad on top of the shot column the better the pattern. Wetter = heavier
* As for the improved bare ball accuracy, I haven't got a clue. I do know that each time I load my 'gonne' to go deer hunting I stand there for a minute and wonder if I should put the shot in!
Now for the legal disclaimer - as always YMMV