Sneering at the Grey Hawk??

[Swampman]

Personally I think any sidelock is ok to discuss here, but then what I think don't matter.

The T/C Cougar (for instance) is one fine looking smokepole, but it is stainless. How is that different than a musket in the white (or polished bright?)

Another thing I find interesting is that some folks consider a caplock (and those who enjoy them)to be inferior or less advanced in the hobby. I like caplock guns personally.

 

Personally I think any sidelock is ok to discuss here, but then what I think don't matter.

The T/C Cougar (for instance) is one fine looking smokepole, but it is stainless. How is that different than a musket in the white (or polished bright?).

Not to start beating this thing to death, but a stainless matchlock would be alright then? Is there no line that can be drawn?

 

[Little Wattsy]

Personally, I could care less what folks do. I shoot what I like, and I hope others do too.

I've seen too many snobs that fish with a fly rod & turn up their nose at a can of worms to fall into that trap.

Live, and let live........

Been there & done that (for 30+ years) and got the hand stitched walnut dyed linen t-shirt.

:hatsoff:

 

[ol vern]

Personally I think any sidelock is ok to discuss here, but then what I think don't matter.

The T/C Cougar (for instance) is one fine looking smokepole, but it is stainless. How is that different than a musket in the white (or polished bright?).

Not to start beating this thing to death, but a stainless matchlock would be alright then? Is there no line that can be drawn?

Why not? I doubt that any of the guns made today use the type of iorn or steel that the original
ones did.

 

[Stumpkiller]

TG,

I gave up reading your post after a few lines. Nobody is going to wade though a single, page-long sentence. You may have had something worth reading, but a few periods, carriage returns and paragraphs would have helped. :v

I read it all 'cause I haven't seen TG spend 1/10 that many words in five years!!

God bless ANYONE that can feel strongly on any subject in today's fog of complacency.


Anyway, like it or not 98% of all muzzleloading shooters will be introduced to the pursuit via the in-lines and other modern versions of muzzleloaders. We must welcome them with open arms and hope that, by example, we can convince them to dig a little deeper into the history and challenge of the older ways and means.

Being insufferable snobs may be satisfying at some level but we'll die cold and alone in the end. We try to accomidate new shooters and those expanding their horizons, though with limitations on what is allowed to be discussed. It ain't easy and it is highly subjective.

 

[R.M.]

:applause:

 

[musketman]

To add to what Stumpkiller said, there were many threads on the stainless steel Ruger Old Action Army revolvers in the pistol section over the years, I guess the stainless Gray Hawk thread can stay too.

Unfortunately, no matter what we allow, we cannot please everyone, and that's the sad truth.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

I'd respect the hunting abilities of anybody who uses a sidelock-type rifle or smoothbore and iron sights :hatsoff: . They are making the effort, and if they use non-traditional smokepoles I think it's because that is what is generally available on the market; MegaloMart does not sell real black powder and does not sell traditional guns. But the ones easily available to most folks are reliable and affordable, and at least they make the attempt to roughly resemble traditional guns. I like the old style guns myself and would not buy a plastic stock or stainless steel one, but at least these new ones we are discussing are not the inlines (which are really just cartridge guns that load from the front :barf: ).

 

[tg]

"Stainless steel, plastic, in-line, etc. cannot fit anyone's definition of TRADITIONAL, can it?"

What about modern peep sights and bullets? These are the things that take an outfit over the top and create an advantage over the type that the originals used, that should be the focal point not cosmetic issues, if the line is not drawn then there is no point in even using the term traditional if it includes all the modern improved versions of the old technology.What is so difficult about that concept to understand?

Not aimed a you Carl you just provided a good jumping off point.

 

[tg]

"Being insufferable snobs may be satisfying at some level but we'll die cold and alone in the end. We try to accomidate new shooters and those expanding their horizons, though with limitations on what is allowed to be discussed."

I hardly see trying to stick to reallity as snobish, there is no reason folks cannot use/talk about maxi balls, lyman peep sights and the modern improved accesories without having to refer to them as traditional and for the most part it is not the newcommers who insist on making something that isn't traditional into something that is, it's some who have been around for quite a while, the newcommers likely don't know, that is the whole point of drawing the line about the terminology.Not to alienate but to educate, if it does not fit, you must equit, if you don't get it, your head is full of ... anyway no one is looking to bust new shooters just to not feed them a bunch of crappola about modern stuff being traditional.

 

Stumpkiller,Muskettman

Thank You gents.This keeps up T.C. Hawken or older CVA sidelock users will not be able to contribute.

Jay

 

[Grey Hawk]

I was at a lake here in WA. I had the fly rod, anonther guy had his fly rod, float tubes cigars all in all about $500+/- of combined gear, fished for 2-3 hours and as we made our way over to the bank a guy was fishing with a CANE POLE and WORMS. :nono: ...we told him he was catching the stupid fish as we were looking for the smarter ones....he met us at camp that evening and shared his bounty of stupid ones and we shared our beer. :bow:

Grey Hawk

 

Grey Hawk,
:rotf: :rotf:

Jay

 

This keeps up T.C. Hawken or older CVA sidelock users will not be able to contribute.

Why do you say that? (please be specific)

 

Carl,

Well Stumpkiller pretty much echoes my sentiments concerning this forum. And Musketman pretty well has settled this. Guns like the grey hawk fall into such a grey area. Where does the line get drawn? I think musketman did a pretty close approximation of drawing the line.

Jay

 

[Capt. Fred]

Well, I am working on a Don Stith fullstock Hawken. Don's part sets are considered the closet to the originals. So this my friends is a real TRADITIONAL muzzleloader. (OH, except for the fact that the log for the stock was likely cut with a chainsaw, dragged with a skidder, trucked on a tractor trailer, cut with an electric saw, shaped by some humongus machine, sent to me through UPS, worked on while listening to my IPOD, seen well under flourescent, incandescent, and halogen bulbs as necessary, hung from the ceiling with monofiliment for finishing, oh and lets talk about the stamped ram rod thimbles spot welded together..........)

Well, anyways, my nose is going to be held way high when I carry this traditional firearm. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[tg]

I would not see any reason for not talking about any of the production sidelocks as to working loads tweaking locks or whatever one would want to talk about the point is just to not consider them traditional arms, and very few would fall into that grey area, same thing for maxi balls , ballets or Hollow Based Knurled Wall Superexpando killer bullets use them talk about them if someone wishes, it will likely be noted that these are modern bullets..so what just don't call them traditional so as to keep the old seperated from the new terminology wise for the sake of identification particularly for new shooters, same for sights many have to use peeps as they age, they have the option of buying or making a traditional peep or buying a modern one, when talking about them one is traditional the other modern no reason for any one on either side to get upset, they are what they are the traditional ones are not better in fact just the opposite will be the case. They are just different types, traditional and modern, it takes a strong man to set the traditional handle down from time to time and accept that they do use some modern gear, we all do, some just to a greater extent than others.The two types do need to be recognized for what they are or we risk loosing the traditional stuff alltogether as we come closer to the anything goes, if it loads from the front mentality.

 

[slabsides]

"ole slabsides', is here,reading and astounded at the vehemence with which some of you have approached this subject, and the thinly veiled prejudice and plain lack of respect it implies. I'm doing my best to keep from being royally ticked off at it.
I'm not a beginner at this stuff. I've been a shooter and hunter for over 65 years, give or take a couple; carried a gun in the nation's defense; shot and competed in many disciplines; and just parenthetically, a few years ago, traded a rifle I didn't want for a Gray Hawk: my first and only BP gun. I was pleased at its accuracy, and could care less if it's 'authentically traditional' according to the biased, I might even say bigoted, lights of some of you. I joined this forum not to teach, but to learn. And my, the things I'm learning!
I've met the like in many shooting disciplines: the skeet shooter with the Perazzi who sneers at the kid with the Ithaca pump; the top-ranked pistol competitor who turns his nose at the family man who takes a stab at the game with his non-bespoke, domestic but good handgun, and yes, the lofty fly fishermen who look askance at the man with the Walmart spinning outfit.
Sorry,I won't sit in the back of your bus, or subscribe, tail tucked, to your purist utopia of "traditionalism". Been there, done that. No more.
I briefly joined a BP club in which the purebreds here would have been right at home: $2000 bespoke flintlocks and all. They sneered and muttered when I and my 'department store' Grey Hawk cleaned their clocks. And I took my prize, and never went back. I am tempted to believe that this attitude is endemic amongst certain elements in the BP game.
If this qualifies as a 'personal attack', so be it. My blackpowder sidelock, incidentally of a 'color' that some don't approve of, will keep on keepin' on, with appreciation for all of you who have posted supportively. You know who you are.
Sorry to have opened such a can of worms on your forum.
I won't be goaded into posting to this thread again.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Have you ever met a snob who recognized himself as a "snob"?? Me thinks one doeth protest too much!

 

tg,

Just a thought pard, and only as it pertains to firearms... Traditional / Authentic. Tradional= T.C., Traditions,Lyman,Uberti, Older CVA sidelocks. Authentic=A TOTW, Pecatonica River, Chambers, parts sets rifles, they are so much closer to authentic than production rifles, obviously custom authentic rifles made by knowledgable makers. Just a thought.

Jay