Sneering at the Grey Hawk??

[Russ T Frizzen]

I was at a lake here in WA. I had the fly rod, anonther guy had his fly rod, float tubes cigars all in all about $500+/- of combined gear, fished for 2-3 hours and as we made our way over to the bank a guy was fishing with a CANE POLE and WORMS. :nono: ...we told him he was catching the stupid fish as we were looking for the smarter ones....he met us at camp that evening and shared his bounty of stupid ones and we shared our beer. :bow:

So the guy with the most traditional fishing pole caught the most fish?

Grey Hawk

 

[tg]

No arguement Jay I have put together some parts sets from TOTW but most of the production guns are close enough in appearance though not replica grade that they have been accepted over the years there has to be a stating point for those who want to try this sport and the Traditions/TC/s and the like are a far better option than the guns of Tony Knight just where I come from on the issue and on the other side of the coin you could order a Haines parts set have a 1/23 barrel made for it and shot the newest super bullet out there and you have an outfit of a lower traditional level than the TC with a PRB, once again just my"take" on a way to keep out the ridiculus yet allow more toget a taste of the old ways.I don't think one can completely isolate authentic is x and traditional is Y there is a blending of both the traditional would be a lesser level of authentic,the begining or entry authentic has it's own world of does and don't

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your rifle. The point being made is that it is not traditional that's all. There is no historical record of synthetic stocked firearms prior to very recent times. They did not exist in the old days--the time period that we think of as traditional. It is not a matter of snobbery--a common accusation when it is pointed out that someone's firearm isn't traditional. Then there is the desperate and pathetic argument that no modern made muzzleloader is traditional because the parts weren't hammered out in a forge by the gunmaker himself. Then someone else cries out in high indignation that soon his Spanish or Italian or Indian or Tierra del Fuegan made rifle won't be allowed to be discussed on the forum though when pressed, his reasons are vague at best. And at least once, someone will point out that his non-traditional rifle outshot a group of people who were using very expensive custom made rifles. The owners of these very expensive custom made rifles are always portrayed as sneering, snobbish drooling louts who got their comeuppance and just deserts from our hero--who is no doubt wearing a polyester capote. I believe I have heard this story about thirty times now.

Once again, you have a fine and dandy rifle. I believe that it will give you long and trouble free service for centuries to come. It will continue to vanquish snobby old louts until it becomes a legend spoken of in hushed tones around campfires across the country and perhaps the world--where ever men and women of the shooting sports gather. But it is not and never will be traditional and that is the point the "snobs" have tried to make and that you and your allies don't seem to grasp. It has a plastic stock--it's that simple. :v

 

[tg]

Makes sense to me Russ, I am done for today. I wish all who shoot the production guns well most are made in the tradition of this great sport, though some fall short they are still fine guns and as said provide years of service, many will have a bigger problem with the accouterments when the traditional test seperates the old from the new, but that is another story.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your rifle. The point being made is that it is not traditional that's all.

And that's the only point being made, but some people want to feel like a victim, so let them.

There's nothing elite or snobbish about pointing out the fact that a gun is not "historic" in nature. It's obvious by some of the comments that some people, don't care if their gun is "authentically traditional". That's fine, so why even bring it up to begin with. Why stir the hornet's nest and then complain about the hornets?

Frankly, I think the original question was begging for an argument by it's content.

 

[Grey Hawk]

LET IT GO :yakyak: JUST LET IT GO

GH

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

LET IT GO :yakyak: JUST LET IT GO

GH

I yield to your great wit as evidenced by the clever reply quoted above. You have defeated me in this discussion as my inadequate words can never pierce the ironclad obtuseness clearly displayed by your inability to grasp a simple distinction. One can only hope that your astonishing ability to miss the point is not an indication of your ability to miss a target. If so Lord help anyone in your vicinity when you open fire--be they in front of you or to your rear--for surely their lives are in grave jeopardy! :v

 

[Zonie]

As I re-read the original post that started this topic I do not see one word about the word Tradition or traditional.
Slabsides was simply pointing out that those who own a Gray Hawk have no reason to apologize for their gun.

I agree.

The Grayhawk, although not traditional in the material sense is indeed a side lock muzzle loading rifle and its design is based on the plains rifles of the mid-1800's. It is a rather well made rifle to boot.

Thus, the Grayhawk meets the requirements needed to be discussed on this forum.

No one on this Forum needs to apologize for using one or for enjoying it or, for that matter, for posting their like of it.

Having said that, I think this topic has been beaten to death. :snore:

 

As I re-read the original post that started this topic I do not see one word about the word Tradition or traditional.
Slabsides was simply pointing out that those who own a Gray Hawk have no reason to apologize for their gun.

With all due respect, nobody said anyone had to apologize for anything. Nobody was talking about this until he brought it up. And how did he start this?

Here's what he says, almost asking for a rebuttal...

"But they ARE good, well-made, true sidelock percussion style guns: not those low-down Innnlines. "
"Sure, it's got a synthetic stock, and the metal is stainless steel. If Davy C came back wearing a polyester capote, would you sneer at him? C'mon, gang ...don't make me feel guilty for lovin' my GH! :nono: "

Notice the scolding finger? What kind of attitude is that to start a discussion? Asking a question and then scolding people before they can even answer is childish and pretty much sets the tone of what will follow.

Letting sleeping dogs lie may have been a better option. Enjoy your guns and don't defend them when they haven't even been mentioned.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Perhaps the somewhat accusatory title "Sneering at the Grey Hawk?" wasn't the best way to start the thread. Especially when no one was sneering at anything. Snarky things like that tend to color the thread from the onset. Still, it was a lot of fun on a cold winter's night. And it's got me thinking about a new project. How does this sound:

55" 10 gauge barrel (stainless steel of course)
Electronic trigger
Ignition by coil and sparkplug (batteries in buttstock for balance)
All furniture to be stainless steel
Full stock of finest carbon fiber hand laid-up (for weight savings and to prove that I ain't no snob)

Since the sparkplug will stick out of the right side of the breech, this is NOT an in-line, and therefore must be considered traditional--albeit in a neo-traditional sort of way as opposed to a paleo-traditional sort of way. I will be the envy of all next summer when I appear at re-enactments with my new gun and vinyl possibles bag. The ladies will swoon with delight when they catch a glimpse of my day-glo orange polyester breech clout and high top sneakers! I dare anyone to call me a snob!!! :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[Swampman]

There's nothing elite or snobbish about pointing out the fact that a gun is not "historic" in nature.

Ok, nothing that T/C, Lyman, CVA, or Traditions makes is historic in nature. They are modern guns.

That said they do look "traditional" in design and I enjoy them..

 

There's nothing elite or snobbish about pointing out the fact that a gun is not "historic" in nature.

Ok, nothing that T/C, Lyman, CVA, or Traditions makes is historic in nature. They are modern guns.

That said they do look "traditional" in design and I enjoy them..

Yes they do, but stainless steel does not. You may be on to something. Maybe that's where the line should be drawn? If it appears to be traditional when viewed, it passes muster? Isn't that why the factory guns are allowed here?

 

[oldwolf]

What bothers me is that around here in NC guys go out during muzzle loading season with in-line rifles that are 209 primed, scoped, Triple 7 pellet charged, copper clad bullet in a sabot, and consider themselves muzzle loading enthusiasts and hunters. I read where some of the modern inline rifles rival centerfire rifles in power and accuracy at times. I think there is a place for these rifles (of course) during the firearms season, not the ML season imo. Sorry for going slightly off-topic.

We probably scared off the original poster. :grin:

 

[Grey Hawk]

My learnin was that if you can't say anythin nice, don't say anythin at all.

Peace be with you sir

Grey Hawk

 

[Swampman]

Why does it bother you? If people need meat, let them hunt it.

What bothers me is that a person can kill 20 or 30 bucks a year on FL public land, but you can't harvest a doe for meat.

For me, it's about the meat.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Anybody can say nice stuff--even if they don't mean it. It takes deep thought and determination to speak your mind in a rude and offensive manner, especially if you don't give a rat's butt about the subject at hand. That takes talent, son, real talent. Peace be unto you and yours. (I actually meant that) :surrender:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Right. But it has already been clearly established that you are not a traditionalist by any stretch of the imagination. So the notion that traditional seasons have long been usurped by the Toby Bridges crowd doesn't bother you at all. You always come down on the side of the modern muzzleloaders because the spirit of tradition doesn't burn in you. That is your loss and is a sad thing--made even sadder by the fact that you don't even know you've lost something precious.

 

[Swampman]

Considering all the things I've done, all the people I've met, all the places I've been, and all the guns/gear/period clothing I've made & owned I find your comments laughable at best.

I come down on the side of hunting for food, freedom to do as you wish, and minding my own business. That sounds traditional to me.

When was the last time you killed an animal, cooked and ate it on the spot in period fashion? For me it was about a month ago.

I'll be doing it again on Sunday.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If truth were known, I would be greatly honored to hunt and shoot with an original, traditional rifle. However, they are few and far between, many are no longer in a condition to be safely fired, and continued use would only deteriorate them further.

So, I feel no guilt shooting a decent replica, made of steel rather than iron, and made from a manufactured lock and stock furniture, rather than hand-made furniture and parts. I respect those builders who do build everything from scratch, and even those who build everything but the barrel and breechplug from flat stock.

I do think much of what we call traditional is cosmetic- appearance only-- but I tend to be old fashioned enough to balk at stainless steel barrels, and any kind of synthetic stock.

There is, and ought to be, something very special about shooting blued or browned steel, and holding a wood stock to your face. The Traditional side action guns are very special to shoot, and those who don't understand that difference lead a much sadder life for it.

I also hunt meat- not horns, or antlers. But taking a deer with a muzzleload gives a great deal more satisfaction than using a modern gun, of any description. I am not like other members here, who have gotten rid of all their guns save a custom made MLer or two. I do have, and enjoy hunting with my other guns. Any day spent hunting is better than any day sitting at a desk listening to phone calls!

 

Considering all the things I've done, all the people I've met, all the places I've been, and all the guns/gear/period clothing I've made & owned I find your comments laughable at best.

I come down on the side of hunting for food, freedom to do as you wish, and minding my own business. That sounds traditional to me.

When was the last time you killed an animal, cooked and ate it on the spot in period fashion? For me it was about a month ago.

I'll be doing it again on Sunday.

Wow I thought this discussion was about what is traditional and what should/can be discussed on this board. Now it's turned into testimonials about how great some of us are personally.

Mark, you ask about killing, cooking and eating on the spot. I have to ask you, when was the last time you had a small slice of humble pie. It's delicious, especially when accompanied by some humility soup. :rotf: