So I wonder now if I'll ever get it 'clean' :) Spot check of barrel, patches look rough

[French Colonial]

So here is a thought that maybe you metallurgical experts can answer

Could the Ballistol, which it claims dissolves lead, be dissolving the lead in a leaded barrel?

I would not think so but….,

 

[rafterob]

"Ballistol does Gum-up after a while"
This is why I stopped using it inside my barrel. Caused a real muck fest in my flintlock one time. I use it to clean and protect the outside surfaces with no issues. I use Hoppe's gun oil inside the barrel and it is good for about a month of protection. My guns are stored in an out building so temp. and humidity fluctuations are problematic. I try to make sure I re-oil all my barrels on a monthly basis.

 

[DixieTexian]

Oils can oxidize, and oxidation reactions will often be accompanied by color changes. It addition, any trace amounts of lead or any other substance in the barrel can possibly interact with this reaction. Maybe keep some of the lube patches used when you are done cleaning the bore in the same spot as the rifle and see if they change colors as well. Theoretically they should have the same trace substances on them and experience color change if this is what it is.

 

[Doc]

Have a good method of cleaning my flint, usually I shoot enough I don't have time between shoots to take a look at the barrel. This last time it's been a good 3-4 weeks since I shot and decided to run a patch down the barrel as a check. Brown, brown brown! I ended up cleaning it, take a look at the pics:

View attachment 137137

Dry patches were the first patches I ran, the others are with bore cleaner. I don't get it. My cleaning method is:

Warm water and soap , flush until water runs clean
Clean with patches/jag bore cleaner/water until patches run clean
Clean with alcohol patches until they come clean
Run dry patches
Run Ballistol patch

This is the exact method I did last time and it ran clean. I come back...and see this. I can't tell if that's Ballistol running brown or that's actual rust? Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ryan

Ryan, It appears you’re cleaning of your gun is OK. Apparently the problem remains with your finishing oil. The old saying of never using petroleum products was true back then. Nowadays there are a few new products that never create tar OR build up. Don’t run while in storage and yet are nicely flammable so a couple of caps or primes and our chambers are free of oil. I’ve got Damascus and moderns in my safes for years and never any rust. I would strongly advise you to try some of these new products, such as Lube 1
Doc,

 

[R Ellis]

OK ..instead of zeroing down on fellow shooters and their respective choice of cleaner and lube ...
I submit that WHERE the firearm in question lives ..how stable is its surroundings ..a garaged safe enduring VAST temperature changes ..subjected to one or more wet dripping vehicles oil/protectorate possibly have the results or life span of one that lives at 70°/50%humidity
I also submit that two properly cleaned weapons ..one stored in Arizona ..one in Louisiana or Missouri would NOT exhibit equal satisfaction as to cleaning methods, cleaning chemicals and /or durability results
...I'm not knocking anyone's professed place of storage or chem/oil choices ..you got to do what you got to do storage wise
...I am saying after all this palvering ...it may not be a one size fits all kind of deal
Bear

Could not have said it any better but just what I was thinking THANK YOU SIR

 

[R Ellis]

So here is a thought that maybe you metallurgical experts can answer

Could the Ballistol, which it claims dissolves lead, be dissolving the lead in a leaded barrel?

I would not think so but….,

Just how do you get lead in a m/z barrel with a patched round ball with a patch between barrel and lead also on 3in1 bottle says cleans protects and lubricates and I am finished with this discussion seems you don't want to think Ballistol is anything but Perfect

 

[Doc]

Just how do you get lead in a m/z barrel with a patched round ball with a patch between barrel and lead also on 3in1 bottle says cleans protects and lubricates and I am finished with this discussion seems you don't want to think Ballistol is anything but Perfect

Perhaps he’s like me, and shoots a lot of clays, pheasant and other critters with a shotgun. And yes I use a modern liquid lead remover in my 10 and 12ga. Damascus doubles.
Doc,

 

[R Ellis]

Perhaps he’s like me, and shoots a lot of clays, pheasant and other critters with a shotgun. And yes I use a modern liquid lead remover in my 10 and 12ga. Damascus doubles.
Doc,

OK I see your point but the discussion is about rifles I also have 2 12 gauge shotguns 1 410 /41 smoothbore and 1 58 smoothbore so clean them different also

 

[French Colonial]

Just how do you get lead in a m/z barrel with a patched round ball with a patch between barrel and lead also on 3in1 bottle says cleans protects and lubricates and I am finished with this discussion seems you don't want to think Ballistol is anything but Perfect

Leaded steel is made to make it machine easier (12L14 as an example) and that's about all I know about it, again hope a metallurgist chimes in, I don't think Ballistol is perfect, but it is mineral oil, it will not cause rust in a barrel any more than any other mineral oil. Some of the theories espoused on these forums defy logic.

 

[Doc]

Leaded steel is made to make it machine easier (12L14 as an example) and that's about all I know about it, again hope a metallurgist chimes in, I don't think Ballistol is perfect, but it is mineral oil, it will not cause rust in a barrel any more than any other mineral oil. Some of the theories espoused on these forums defy logic.

The problem with some protection type oils, they run. If you stand up your gun barrel down and find an amount of oil where it stood after a long time that means your protection oil is no longer protecting in spots. Change to a oil that doesn’t run.
Doc,

 

[RyanGeiler]

I appreciate all the replies and discussion. Just an update plus some details I failed to share the first time around.

I live in Missouri and it's been a bit humid--however my rifle sits on my wall in my study. My house is pretty tightly temperature/humidity controlled (and only 3 years old) so I'm doubtful it is environmental.

That said, this evening I pulled my gun back down and ran a dry patch through it. I changed to Barricade last time for protection after the last patches came out so brown. Tonight, this is what came out on first patch:

Now when I cleaned it after making this thread, patches were 100% dry/clean before I did my barricade patch--and I mean clean. So I'm forced to assume at this point it is the actual product and not oxidation. I am wondering if my gun is collecting dust in the air, as I do run my ceiling fan in the study and it is an oil product in the barrel. Still, my room is pretty clean--so I can't imagine that much dust is flying around .

Any thoughts given that update?

 

[rusticbob]

Many years ago when I was first shooting muzzleloaders I used T/C Bore Butter, seemed to work great , made maxi balls easy to load, easy to clean.
Somewhere along the lone, probably when I started using patched round balls, I evolved to oil (Ballistol) and cleaning with hot water . Big pain in the ***. Recently a fellow shooter reintroduced me to Bore Butter and cleaning with moose milk with patched round ball.
Much better accuracy, easier to load, less scrubbing and brushing. Bores are clean and bright. I have found my way back.
All I can say is it works for me.

OK, now I am ready to be flamed

 

[French Colonial]

I appreciate all the replies and discussion. Just an update plus some details I failed to share the first time around.

I live in Missouri and it's been a bit humid--however my rifle sits on my wall in my study. My house is pretty tightly temperature/humidity controlled (and only 3 years old) so I'm doubtful it is environmental.

That said, this evening I pulled my gun back down and ran a dry patch through it. I changed to Barricade last time for protection after the last patches came out so brown. Tonight, this is what came out on first patch:

View attachment 137721

Now when I cleaned it after making this thread, patches were 100% dry/clean before I did my barricade patch--and I mean clean. So I'm forced to assume at this point it is the actual product and not oxidation. I am wondering if my gun is collecting dust in the air, as I do run my ceiling fan in the study and it is an oil product in the barrel. Still, my room is pretty clean--so I can't imagine that much dust is flying around .

Any thoughts given that update?

According to the SDS sheet on Barricade it has a light brown appearance

Barricade Aerosol.pdf (birchwoodcasey.com)

I think your gun is clean and all you are seeing is the remnants of the oils used to protect it.

 

[maillemaker]

I have been having the same problem.

I have been shooting black powder about 10 years now in N-SSA competition. I have always considered that I was pretty meticulous about cleaning. I typically remove the barrel and place the breech end in my utility sink with hot soapy water, and then I work the bore with a brass bristle brush and patches until the patches some out clean.

Here was the results of a test I ran a few weeks ago:

On the left is the patch from wet cleaning with soapy water in the sink.
On the right is the first dry patch down the bore.
On the top is the second dry patch down the bore.

Clearly the sink brush/patch is not getting it sufficiently clean.

I ended up getting a Chore Boy copper scrubby and cleaning my bore with it.
Patch came out dirty again:

I started to suspect leading. I used some JB deleading paste and the chore-boy again. My accuracy, which had fallen off, picked up again in the next competition.

Here is a video before/after scrubbing with the Chore boy:


Later I did a test on my M1842. Cleaned with cold water (some people had suggested flash rusting due to the hot water).

With the breech end submerged in my utility sink full of cold water, I scrubbed it with a soapy brass bristle brush, and then followed pumping action with a patch and also used my breech face scraper. The patch was clean in the water. This was my usual cleaning routine.

Then I ran 2 patches down to dry the barrel.

The 2 patches on the left are from drying:

Then I scrubbed with the Chore Boy and this was the patch after that:

I am starting to think leading is a larger problem than I thought was possible with the low velocities of muzzle loaders. I don't shoot patched bullets.

Steve

 

[Festus]

I am a firm believer in Ballistol. I have dirty patches after they sit awhile also, but no rust. I always thought that was from the cleaning action of it. Sometimes when I don't have time to clean a gun immediately, I spray it down with Ballistol and clean it another day. It really dissolves a lot of crud and cleans very easily after that. I generally don't use the aerosol cans either, not sure if the propellent does something to it? Also, in other posts I have seen people comment on using it mixed with water for final wipe down. That is obviously a bad idea. After reading thousands of posts about the best lube and rust preventative, I still can't help but read these threads. Always fun and everybody has a different product that works for them, and that is what they should continue to use if they aren't having issues.

 

[Mad L]

2 Pistols, flintlock
2 Pistols, percussion
2 Rifles, percussion
1 blunderbuss, flintlock
1 Rifle, percussion

I use same cleaning method on all. I use Ballistol but in cleaning only (water, brush, patches, mop, Ballistol, patches alchohol) then Baracaid for final Lube and storage (Hopps #9 on lock). I sometimes wipe the exterior with bear oil.
I store mine on the wall, pistols on a shelf.
The Only one I ever get a brown patch out of the next day is the Percussion Rifle.
That one was gifted to me as a rusted mess, I Scrubbed and soaked for days. Now I can clean until patches come out white as snow, but two days later - brown/reddish yet All the other firearms come out white.

Seems to me like once rust has set in, it is near impossible to get rid of (yes I know of scrub pads, used them, and various chemicals, used some too).

I however am in a Dry region, and I have never used Ballistol as a 'preservative'.

 

[SavageML 50]

I plug the end of my barrels after cleaning to store them in my gun cabinet and have anti corrosive stuff hanging inside my gun cabinet, seems to work. Could be a moisture problem where your keeping your gun?

 

[Omahkapi'si]

• Hoppes BP cleaner & swab. Repeat a couple of times until your patches are same color as the milk colored BP cleaner
• alcohol flush
• Ballistol lubed patch down the barrel
• clean the lock the same way and lube
• wipe the whole rifle down with a Ballistol patch, wood and all
• total cleaning time 20-30 minutes

Good to go.

 

[morehops52]

For short term storage many "oils" will do the job. If you're looking at long term storage (over 6 months) I would only use a grease such as Rig. The grease is thick, won't run and protects very well. Of course before shooting again you need to get it cleaned out well too.

 

[French Colonial]

For short term storage many "oils" will do the job. If you're looking at long term storage (over 6 months) I would only use a grease such as Rig. The grease is thick, won't run and protects very well. Of course before shooting again you need to get it cleaned out well too.

I love RIG, wipe the gun down with it and then wipe it again with a clean cloth and it leaves a very thin film that dries after awhile and never any rust even in very hot humid conditions.

I never clean it out of the barrel either, just shoot it, but then again I do not have any patent breeches.