If his budget is $2.5K then no, no Traditions need apply.
Starting to look for a flintlock
- Thread starter Ryeboy86
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As a hunter there are things also to look at. Will you be traveling to go hunting? Vehicle or plane? I know on this forum many people recommend a builder like Kibler etc, before knowing what type of hunting you will be doing. Some styles of guns are just way to long for the style and weather we hunt in the north and mountains. I like a hawken style for traveling the best as it can be broken down pretty short, and you can spot and stalk really well. I wish Kibler made one. What hunting style, game and location were you thinking of?
I'll be staying here in Arizona and going after Elk. That will be the primary species I hunt with it. Probably Javelina too.. LOL
transportation should not be an issue then. The bigger issue will be how far you typically walk in a day, how thick some of the terrain may be, and what weight you are comfortable with. I certainly love a 58, and I am also growing to love my 54 more all the time. I started playing with different loads and have found there are more options available for bullets in the 54. Being a hunter, I understand how half the fun is planning, learning and the anticipation of the next hunt and with what weapon. Enjoy the ride.
I've actually been looking at .54 as well!! A well placed shot is the primary factor..
Mgbruch
40 Cal
More opinions.
I've owned flintlocks in .50, .54, and .58. I currently own a .50 and a .58. Many will disagree, but I find the .54 to be neither here nor there. The .50 is absolutely effective for deer. And for larger animals, the .58 is the better choice. There's no question that the .54 is effective on elk; but the .58 will do it better. If I could only have one caliber to hunt both deer and elk, it would be the .58 with moderate loads. It has enough power for elk at round ball ranges. And, although it's more than you need for deer, those round balls don't ruin meat like a high power cartridge. So there's really no negative side to using a larger caliber than needed for deer.
With patched round balls, caliber is more important than velocity when it comes to effectiveness on large game. With moderate loads, those globs of lead carry a lot of inertia. I've taken three deer with the .58 (70 grs 3f) and have never recovered a ball. I've taken two with the .50 (65 grs 3f) and have only recovered one ball. That ball went lengthwise through a young whitetail buck, and ended up under the hide on his hind end. The range was about 60 yards.
When it comes to flintlocks, I would not let the hunting determine my choice of arm. We hunt with flintlocks for fun... not out of necessity. Don't let the tail wag the dog. If I had to depend on elk hunting for all of my red meat, I'd use a high powered rifle that could reach out to 300 yards at least. My .50 has a 44" barrel, and weighs a little over seven pounds. My .58 has a 43" barrel, and weighs about 9 pounds. I still hunt; and I end up sitting a fair amount through the day... so the weight of the big gun has never been an issue for me.
I also don't agree with folks who say that long barrels are a hinderance in heavy cover. I have, on occasion, found myself in cover that put me on my hands and knees. In that kind of cover I only get fleeting glimpses of the deer as they break for the next ridge over anyway. I've never found the long barrel to be an inconvenience. I like long barreled rifles, with a good swamped barrel. I like the way they look. I like the feel and balance when I'm carrying them. And I like seeing them in my hands, when hunting.
You want a barrel at least 40". As someone who likes the long guns, good for you. Some of us like the long ones. Some like the shorter Jager or sporting rifles. Some like Hawken's... and so on. End up with the kind of gun that really appeals to you, and you won't regret it.
My flintlocks are for me what no cartridge gun could ever be. I have a 30-06 that I stocked with a nice piece of figured walnut, about 40 years ago. I only hunt big game with my flintlocks now, so the bolt action stays in it's case. But the flintlocks are different. Several times a week, I'll take them out to look at them, handle them, bring them to my shoulder, and admire the unique beauty and symmetry they possess. In my life, I've taken a lot more game with cartridge guns than flintlocks. But when I remember hunts, and game taken, it's the days with flintlocks that come to mind most of the time. And with a lot more fondness of memory.
If it's important to you, then don't be in too much of a hurry. Watch the horizon, mind the wind... and good luck.
I've owned flintlocks in .50, .54, and .58. I currently own a .50 and a .58. Many will disagree, but I find the .54 to be neither here nor there. The .50 is absolutely effective for deer. And for larger animals, the .58 is the better choice. There's no question that the .54 is effective on elk; but the .58 will do it better. If I could only have one caliber to hunt both deer and elk, it would be the .58 with moderate loads. It has enough power for elk at round ball ranges. And, although it's more than you need for deer, those round balls don't ruin meat like a high power cartridge. So there's really no negative side to using a larger caliber than needed for deer.
With patched round balls, caliber is more important than velocity when it comes to effectiveness on large game. With moderate loads, those globs of lead carry a lot of inertia. I've taken three deer with the .58 (70 grs 3f) and have never recovered a ball. I've taken two with the .50 (65 grs 3f) and have only recovered one ball. That ball went lengthwise through a young whitetail buck, and ended up under the hide on his hind end. The range was about 60 yards.
When it comes to flintlocks, I would not let the hunting determine my choice of arm. We hunt with flintlocks for fun... not out of necessity. Don't let the tail wag the dog. If I had to depend on elk hunting for all of my red meat, I'd use a high powered rifle that could reach out to 300 yards at least. My .50 has a 44" barrel, and weighs a little over seven pounds. My .58 has a 43" barrel, and weighs about 9 pounds. I still hunt; and I end up sitting a fair amount through the day... so the weight of the big gun has never been an issue for me.
I also don't agree with folks who say that long barrels are a hinderance in heavy cover. I have, on occasion, found myself in cover that put me on my hands and knees. In that kind of cover I only get fleeting glimpses of the deer as they break for the next ridge over anyway. I've never found the long barrel to be an inconvenience. I like long barreled rifles, with a good swamped barrel. I like the way they look. I like the feel and balance when I'm carrying them. And I like seeing them in my hands, when hunting.
You want a barrel at least 40". As someone who likes the long guns, good for you. Some of us like the long ones. Some like the shorter Jager or sporting rifles. Some like Hawken's... and so on. End up with the kind of gun that really appeals to you, and you won't regret it.
My flintlocks are for me what no cartridge gun could ever be. I have a 30-06 that I stocked with a nice piece of figured walnut, about 40 years ago. I only hunt big game with my flintlocks now, so the bolt action stays in it's case. But the flintlocks are different. Several times a week, I'll take them out to look at them, handle them, bring them to my shoulder, and admire the unique beauty and symmetry they possess. In my life, I've taken a lot more game with cartridge guns than flintlocks. But when I remember hunts, and game taken, it's the days with flintlocks that come to mind most of the time. And with a lot more fondness of memory.
If it's important to you, then don't be in too much of a hurry. Watch the horizon, mind the wind... and good luck.
Very well said good sir! I don't have to get a flintlock.. But I want to have another avenue for elk hunting. I have rifles and a bow.. I've always admired Long Rifles to.. I've wanted one for years.. To hunt like our ancestors would be an AMAZING experience!
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Long barrels give good velocity in a 58 Cal.
100gr. 2ffg Eynsford .570rb Kibler Colonial
And 110gr will chronograph 1850fps... I've never chronographed really big loads.
100gr. 2ffg Eynsford .570rb Kibler Colonial
And 110gr will chronograph 1850fps... I've never chronographed really big loads.
TDM
Cannon
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I shot factory rifles for many years, in both .50 and .54. I did try a .58 for awhile but decided it wasn't for me. When I finally decided to put my $$$ up for a custom gun I had a very good idea of what I wanted. I studied several books with detailed pictures and handled what I could find available. I ended up with the perfect style, caliber and barrel length for me. If I had a custom rifle built when I first got interesed in BP I wouldn't have ordered the same rifle that I eventually did.
.58 at1850 fps! That's been referred to as whompability!!
westrayer
40 Cal
Reach out to Dixon's Muzzloloader shop in Kempton, Pa
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I had a good friend that hunted caribou and moose here in AK with a full stock .58 cal rifle. I can't remember for sure if it was flint but I think it was. I never could quite muster up the guts to go into the alders with a single shot muzzle loader especially while deer hunting Kodiak and the side ways rain so prevalent there .
I remember feeling a little exposed several times coming back to camp alone, about dark with a load of meat on my pack even with a high power repeating rifle in my hands.
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You might want to take the time to hook up with a club or a trader that handles rifles so you can get the feel for length of pull, length and style of barrel etc. Dave at Az Muzzleloaders should be able to hook you up with both in AZ.. I run into him at the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous and he usually has a nice selection of rifles. If the length of pull is wrong, you will have trouble with comfort and accuracy. A longer barrel gives you a longer sight radius which can help with accuracy. Weight can become an issue if you are hunting spot and stalk and on your feet for 10 to 12 hours and more than a few miles. I don't live in AZ any more but took 3 elk there while I did. I used a 50 caliber flintlock with a 40 inch swamped barrel. All were one shot hunts. Never found the 40 inch barrel a problem. If you plan to hunt elk in other states, a 54 or 58 would be a better choice due to caliber requirements. If you plan to hunt off horseback, you will want a shorter barrel. I just finished a bear hunt in the high country of western Wyoming on horseback. There is no way you can get through the aspen thickets with a long barreled rifle on horseback. Most saddle cases won't hold a 40 inch barrel. Just something to consider.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
The Log Cabin Shop in Lodi OH always has used custom rifles (along with many others) for sale.
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I have a .58 and .54 for hunting rigs but had I stayed on the farm in Michigan instead of moving to AK as a young man via the Air Force I'm quite sure I would hunt white tail and turkey with my SMR in .45 cal with a 36 inch barrel.
Most of the the calibers long hunters used east of the Mississippi were under .50 from what I've read and they were killing Elk, Buffalo , black bear, deer and cougar routinely.
When they were carrying everything to keep body and soul united on their backs or pack mules smaller calibers that would do the job made a lot of sense.
The larger calibers other than military muskets didn't really gain much traction until they moved West " o'er big muddy" and encountered the Grizzle bears.
