Stiff frizzen & shattering flints

[Rifleman1776]

Kasenite hardening works on most steels. But the depth of the hardened surface is miniscule and will require rehardening fairly frequently.
Refacing with a hacksaw blade is a good fix. But some of the face of the frizzen must be ground down to maintain the same geometry of the lock. It also offers and opportunity to change that geometry for the better. But---knowwatcha are doing or have a replacement frizzen on hand. :shocked2:

 

[MacRob46]

There are exceptions, of course, but most of the Indian-made locks do not have well-hardened frizzens nor is the lock geometry particularly good. Springs are too heavy or too light. Your comment about the short life of the flints could be a number of things but mainsprings and frizzen springs which are too heavy are prime causes of short flint life. All these things contribute to constant problems getting efficient ignition. All hope is not lost but if this is an Indian gun and from the closeup photos I think it may be, then the answers to your problem will be easier to find.

 

[Zonie]

My advice to anyone who watches the video where the guy builds a wood fire and puts his frizzen into a tin can is don't do it.

It will anneal your frizzen and the temperatures inside that can are not hot enough to get the frizzen up to a temperature that will harden it if it is quenched.

Now I'll get off of my soapbox.

 

[Steveyd20]

Seem to be getting better results now and longer flint life too!

Just out of curiosity, is it normal for small bits of flint to come off when you pull the trigger?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Only sometimes. Most of the time what flint might chip off would be too small to see or appear as dust. A little, very little, bit must come off or the flint would, in theory, never dull. Your lock is still destroying flints if that is happening.

 

[Steveyd20]

The frizzen keeps getting burrs on it and the flints are being eaten up, with visible pieces coming off. The life of each flint is around 6 shots, and mis fires a lot.

I think the best thing to do is get this item sent back and refunded - nothing but a nightmare.

 

[azmntman]

Good idea, unless they will send just a new lock? I think the angle is WAYYY off. Its smacking/stricking vs scraping and other than heating and bending the lock it will not get much better.

 

[Steveyd20]

They can do that but I bet I will get sent a soft frizzen again.
I've asked for a hardened frizzen and a new frizzen spring, if it is not here by the weekend I want a refund. It's been so frustrating!

 

[azmntman]

Who is the seller/manufacturer?

 

[Steveyd20]

Henry Krank in the UK. Indian made gun though.

 

[azmntman]

Get a full refund, learn lesson and buy a TC or CVA or Traditions or Lyman. Next one may have a good lock and the touch hole drilled way off. If you had bought a decent used of the above you'd be sighted in and posting targets for us to ogle over by now!

I don't like shooting guns made by folks earning $1.75 a week myself. But I'm funny that way :idunno:

 

[kurts]

send it back, a replacement lock will be the same problem.

 

[Musketeer]

Sorry to hear of your woes. Indian guns can be great shooters, but you have to be really choosy. Here in North America we're lucky to have several vendors who pick through batches, return the real clunkers, and tweak the good ones into decent shooters. No experience with Henry Krank, but it's possible they may just send 'em out as they arrive from India (which often means soft frizzens and ill fitting parts). Or this could just be a fluke that slipped through. Definitely send the whole thing back, and try to contact them and see if they'll address the specific issues you're having.

 

[MacRob46]

Send it back and save your money for something better. The Indian made locks are a source of constant frustration for many although there are some which are well-made. I don't trust the barrels either.

 

[Dphar]

Hello Chaps,

First visit to this forum, and I'm hoping you can lend some experience to me.

I have recently purchased a reproduction baker rifle to use in my re-enactment group (5/60th royal American rifles), but I'm experiencing a few problems:

1) each time I pull the trigger, bits of the flint and flying off and chipping away. I'm getting sparks for two or three hits but then nothing after

2) the frizzen feels slightly stiff and the face of it is getting scratched and blurred each time the flint hits it.

I'm using top quality flints, and have used flints from various suppliers but still experience the same problems no matter what flints I use. The rifle is brand new, but I'm not receiving any support from the supplier, which hasn't helped things.

Any feedback or advice is warmly welcomed, and I hope you can put smile on a slightly cranky englishmans face!

Thanks

Frizzen may be too soft.
These military locks are not all that great in many cases. If it is from the rifle shoppe the frizzen may need to be faced with something like 1095 or 1080.

If its made of the stuff the frizzen on my TRS lock it will never spark right until faced.
If the guy that put it together can't figure out what is wrong then you need someone with the knowledge and skill to fix it.
Frizzens always get scratched since the sparks are small pieces of frizzen steel ripped from the frizzen face by the harder rock.
Stiff frizzen springs will not break flints if everything is like it should be. Light springs often cause excessive rebound where the frizzen strikes the flint and breaks it off.
Dan

 

[Uther]

Hi Stevey! I remember you from the SK! Yes, thats an Indian gun from Kranks. Kranks are a well regarded shop here in the UK, where we are not exactly spoilt for choice.Basically we have Kranks, and one other. I have an English lock fowler from them, had it for over a year and fired several hundred times now at reenactments. It will eat a flint in around 12-15 shots, and the frizzen is pretty scored up now. I am planning to get the frizzen hardened, as I believe it is a bit soft, and I think one of the main problems, which I suspect is what you have, is bounceback smashing the top of the flint.
Andy (ex Rivers)

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't like shooting guns made by folks earning $1.75 a week myself

If they earn that much. :shocked2:
There is a system in India that is essentialy legal slavery of children. A father can 'borrow' some money but then uses the child to work for payback. A $25.00 "loan" can mean almost a lifetime of servitude for the child. That is, if they are lucky to live past childhood. The conditions they work and live in are horrendous. Support that economy? Not if I can help it.

 

[MSW]

took another look at the photos ... now that I've had some sleep (whazzat stuff?) I did notice that the flint seems to strike way too high, so I would suspect that the lock geometry is off, and that the flint is striking the frizzen at a bad angle, rebounding, re- engaging the surface of the frizzen again, and the whole deal is sort of running out of steam at the end.

bad deal.

regrettably, the solution to bad lock geometry is pretty drastic. unless you want to get into bending the cock (I recommend against it, most strongly) I think you're in a good position to have the whole deal replaced.

the whole deal has been a disappointment for you, as well as a frustration, but don't give up ... there are plenty of good rifles out there, and hopefully you will have one soon and then (armed with your hard won knowledge) you will have a great deal of fun.

I would urge you not to give up, but rather have another try at it.

 

[Steveyd20]

Hi Andy,

Yes I remember you well buddy, great to hear from you!

Problem all sorted - Derbyshire Arms hardened the frizzen, re mounted it and its now sparking incredibl well and is all good to go!

Thanks for all your help guys appreciate it!

 

[webb116054]

I am having the same problem with a Belgian smoothbore 69 cal musket ! I first took the frizzen off my rifle and very lightly smoothed the dog leg portion that touches the spring until is was silky smooth, then re installed it and seen if that made the frzzen strike softer and not chip the flint. ! If it is still doing it, take a little more steel off the dogleg and re install and try again . Keep doing this until the frizzen goes back smoothly but does not bounce back against the flint ! Be sure to polish the frizzen spring also ! Now, put the flint in and try again to see if it is sparking ! If not, get a file and see if it cuts or drags across the frizzen face when you slide the file accross as to sharpen it like a knife blade ! If the file bites in the metal on the frizzen face, it needs to be hardened ! To harden, go on ebay and buy some kassenit or buy some cherry red, from track of the wolf. Heat the frizzen on a forge , bar b Que grill or with an acetylene torch until just above cherry red hot and spoon the compound onto the hot frizzen face and let it melt ! Put as much of the compound on the frizzen as you can until the frizzen gets too cold to melt any more ! Then reheat the frizzen to cherry red and instantly dunk in cold water ! Then take the frizzen and put it in your oven on 400 degrees for an hour and then take out and air cool. Then re install the frizzen and drop the hammer . It should shower hot sparks in the pan ! Now, if the file scates across the frizzen face and don’t leave a mark, it is too hard and must be softened ! This was my case ! Just take a forge, bar b que grill or butane torch and heat the frizzen up until it just starts to turn dark red! Take ot out of the flame and put in the oven on broil for an hour then take it out, cool and try it on your rifle ! It should work perfect ! If no sparks, try the file again to make sure you did not soften it too much ! If you did, just do the kassenit or cherry red compound again and go through the harden process and it should work ! If it still does not work, the frizzen might have too much other metals such as brass, copper or aluminum in it and it will not temper ! A lot of foreign made frizzens are either not hard enough or are too hard or made with junk metal that will not harden !