Stuck ball, now with drill bit

[Dude]

I'm totally new to BP, so new in fact, even though I got my first one a year ago I still haven't shot it or any of the ones I've collected since. However, I'm not new to solving weird problems. LOL

So what do you think of this idea? First either remove any powder in the chamber or neutralize it by wetting it down. Maybe both.

Then, using a length of 1/4" steel rod 2 1/2 or 3 ft long, heat the end to cherry red and touch it to the drill bit. Get it hot enough to melt the lead. Might take two or three times to impart enough heat to the drill bit so it loosens and falls out. I'd probably want to use a guide bushing to center it in the bore.

Once it's out, use the long drill bit method to remove most of the lead as shown in an earlier posting. There again, I'd want to use a guide bushing to center it in the bore. Probably brass or some tough plastic like Delrin.

Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if this would work when a ball jams before bottoming: fill most of the empty space with cream of wheat, then add five or ten grains of BP. Would the ball act like an obstruction and cause damage or be shot out of the barrel?

 

[Britsmoothy]

So to recap ( to pun intended) we have waited days for a bore scope to confirm what we all ready know
Just get 20gns in there and light it up.
I just dont get why all the fuss !

 

[Ontario47]

My two cents would be to get a 3 foot long 3/16 pipe stiff enough to act as a ramrod; get 10-20 grains of black powder in the breach with nipple removed (or through the touch hole); get the pipe over the drill end and ram the bullet back down on the powder. Leave the pipe in place. Fire in safe direction. If it all comes out---done. If only the drill comes out, pull the bullet with a ball remover screw tapered to larger than 1/8 inch.

 

[Dude]

Just get 20gns in there and light it up.
I just dont get why all the fuss !

I guess you'd find out soon enough if the hole in the ball leaked enough compression to keep it from being blown out.

With all the warnings not to fire a gun with an obstruction, I don't know what to think about this. Per the OP, the ball is 6" from being seated. So far, I've heard to use five or ten grains. So twenty would still be ok?

I'm no expert, so don't get the idea I'm challenging you. If you've been there/done that, then that experience trumps anything I've read.

My two cents would be to get a 3 foot long 3/16 pipe stiff enough to act as a ramrod; get 10-20 grains of black powder in the breach with nipple removed (or through the touch hole); get the pipe over the drill end and ram the bullet back down on the powder. Leave the pipe in place. Fire in safe direction. If it all comes out---done. If only the drill comes out, pull the bullet with a ball remover screw tapered to larger than 1/8 inch.

This makes sense to me. I'm all for trying the simple solutions first!

 

[Britsmoothy]

I guess you'd find out soon enough if the hole in the ball leaked enough compression to keep it from being blown out.

With all the warnings not to fire a gun with an obstruction, I don't know what to think about this. Per the OP, the ball is 6" from being seated. So far, I've heard to use five or ten grains. So twenty would still be ok?

I'm no expert, so don't get the idea I'm challenging you. If you've been there/done that, then that experience trumps anything I've read.



This makes sense to me. I'm all for trying the simple solutions first!

This situation is not the same as having a normal loaded ball and then accidentally loading a second ball some ways off the first ball. That would be very dangerous.
The OP's ball is vented already. The co2 hasn't enough energy to overcome the vented ball.
It just needs a little more energy and it will be out.

In all sincerity I can not believe the fear in doing this. Anyone would think we are fooling with an unexploded bomb here!
Just get it out

 

[Rudall]

My two cents would be to get a 3 foot long 3/16 pipe stiff enough to act as a ramrod; get 10-20 grains of black powder in the breach with nipple removed (or through the touch hole); get the pipe over the drill end and ram the bullet back down on the powder. Leave the pipe in place. Fire in safe direction. If it all comes out---done. If only the drill comes out, pull the bullet with a ball remover screw tapered to larger than 1/8 inch.

Please stop fannying around and just do this.
I can’t believe this has taken five pages.

 

[Bill Rowe]

Could he heat the spot on the barrel where it is lodged with a propane torch and sort of melt it, drill bit is loose then and can be pushed out. Do not over heat as to warp the barrel though, just enough to singe the bullet small..

 

[Britsmoothy]

Could he heat the spot on the barrel where it is lodged with a propane torch and sort of melt it, drill bit is loose then and can be pushed out. Do not over heat as to warp the barrel though, just enough to singe the bullet small..

Heating the barrel is dumb!
To get enough heat the transfer to the lead will have the barrel so hot that carbon could leave the steel and anneal to soft.
In agreement with the previous contributor, it's just "fannying around.
if ever I need a dance involving dancing around a mulberry bush organising I'm coming here for advice

 

[Whitworth]

Exhaust valves are steel and operate red hot, cool off and do it again and again millions of times...... Heating the barrel enough to melt lead isn't going to ruin the steel.

 

[Bill Rowe]

Melting point of lead is around 320 deg. , plenty cool enough for steel , will not even hardly change barrel color. Steel will not start to anneal till 500 deg. Too bad your oven is too shallow. Propane torch would be working over time to cherry red a barrel to warp.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Exhaust valves are steel and operate red hot, cool off and do it again and again millions of times...... Heating the barrel enough to melt lead isn't going to ruin the steel.

I think you will find they are a different constitution of steel than a muzzleloader barrel. Engineers have for decades also endeavoured to improve the life of exhaust valves due to heat damage.
Completely different worlds sorry.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Melting point of lead is around 320 deg. , plenty cool enough for steel , will not even hardly change barrel color. Steel will not start to anneal till 500 deg. Too bad your oven is too shallow. Propane torch would be working over time to cherry red a barrel to warp.

The caveat is though that the steel will not efficiently transfer the heat to the ball. It will take more heat to transfer enough to the whole ball.
It is a common miss conception that 100% heat transfere will occur.

Going back to exhaust valves. An exhaust valve is shut more than it is open and much heat is transferred to the cooled valve seat and steam guide but even with that they burn out eventually! It was such an issue millions of tons of a lead derivative was added to fuel to coat the valve and valve seats to resist burning. The coating thus although very thin was sufficient enough to stop some heat transfer!
See the point? It takes very little gap or another substance such as a microscopic oxide or carbide coating for example to hamper heat transfere!
My career is welding. I see it regularly

 

[Grizzlybear68]

What about dribbling some powder behind the ball and then seating the ball back down on top of powder and shooting? I guess question is if the powder burns fast enough to push the ball out before it leaks through the hole.

 

[Whitworth]

I think you will find they are a different constitution of steel than a muzzleloader barrel. Engineers have for decades also endeavoured to improve the life of exhaust valves due to heat damage.
Completely different worlds sorry.

Respectfully disagree. Lead was added for anti knock properties. The cushioning effect was a happy by-product but remember Amoco sold billions of gallons of HI-octane without lead . Retired FAA licensed aircraft pilot and mechanic here, so I know a little about engines, valves, welding and various materials. Got to fly a Merlin powered Mustang once, better airframe than the Spit but thanks for the engine

 

[Walkingeagle]

Remove nipppe, 10 grains or so of 4fg powder trickled through the nipple hole, then reseat nipple and shoot it out. Repeat with slightly more powder if first volume doesn’t work. Nothing to it.
Walk

 

[mooman76]

I know there is allot of suggestions going around. Maybe one more. What about pouring about half a dipper of melted lead down the bore to seal the hole. I would try to pour it straight down avoiding the lead touching the sides of the barrel, otherwise it may cool and stick to the sides of the barrel before it gets there.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Respectfully disagree. Lead was added for anti knock properties. The cushioning effect was a happy by-product but remember Amoco sold billions of gallons of HI-octane without lead . Retired FAA licensed aircraft pilot and mechanic here, so I know a little about engines, valves, welding and various materials. Got to fly a Merlin powered Mustang once, better airframe than the Spit but thanks for the engine

Sure.
Some fuels had alcohol ingredients. Alcohol naturally has better anti knock abilities but additives are still needed to protect the exhaust or make them of very hard carbide steels or improve cooling of the area.
Steels with next to no association with muzzleloader barrels

 

[appalichian hunter]

I am with Brit some powder in the touch hole tie the gun fast to something solid point it down range use a cord long enough to stand a fair ways off tied to the trigger shoot it off, one of two things are going to happen out comes the mess your dealing with now or failure and you bulge a barrel either way it is a lesson learnt.

 

[Crow-Feather]

I guess you'd find out soon enough if the hole in the ball leaked enough compression to keep it from being blown out.

With all the warnings not to fire a gun with an obstruction, I don't know what to think about this. Per the OP, the ball is 6" from being seated. So far, I've heard to use five or ten grains. So twenty would still be ok?

I'm no expert, so don't get the idea I'm challenging you. If you've been there/done that, then that experience trumps anything I've read.



This makes sense to me. I'm all for trying the simple solutions first!

Tape the rod twice over to prevent scratching the bore

 

[Flinty Scot]

Since two key issues with shooting the ball out are the ball not being seated and keeping the drill from damaging the bore,drill out the original dowel, deep enough to sleeve the whole drill ( if it's not already) and keep it centered; charge the breech through the thimble; push the ball down to it; leave the rod sleeved over the rod; and just shoot the whole mess at once.
You will have taken care of two rights of passage at once; dry-balling and shooting your ramrod.