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Stick Man

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Hello, I'm completely inexperienced with muzzle loaders, but looking to get in to the sport. I basically want to find a good quality but plain Jane working percussion rifle. I prefer Eastern styled rifles to Western styled ones. Whether it is production or custom doesn't matter to me, but it needs to be quality. I'm willing to spend what it takes, but if the price were to be from $1000 to $1600 that would be preferred. I'd prefer a pre-finished and assembled rifle, but am willing to go with a kit. Lastly, I want something with a big bore, 62 or 58 caliber preferably. This rifle would be for elk, and hopefully one day black bear.
Thanks.
 
I whole heartedly second TVM for that long rifle, look at their in the white kits. The largest caliber you'll be able to go is .58 which will take anything that you mentioned, even a .54 is over kill. , A .54 or .58 long rife that you built yourself will be something you will keep forever, and hand down to your children. Good luck. There are a bunch of folks on this website that will be glad to help.
 
Stick Man said:
Lastly, I want something with a big bore, 62 or 58 caliber preferably. This rifle would be for elk, and hopefully one day black bear.

I failed to address that point. I have both 58 and 62 rifles and shoot them a fair bit. For your uses, I'd go with the 58. It's considerably flatter shooting, at least at velocities which you can more easily tolerate on the rear end of the rifle. In order to get the 62 shooting as flat as a 58, you're going to be pouring a whole lot more powder down the bore to get that heavier ball moving. I have five 58 calibers with barrels ranging from 24" to 36" and weight from a little under 8# to 12.5#. Even the lightest is downright comfortable to shoot compared to a 62 moving the ball fast enough for a comparable trajectory. Yet the 58 has more than enough geewhiz at the terminal end for elk.

Along those lines, put some careful thought into stock design. With lots of recoil on an "eastern" style rifle, you're going to want to pay close attention to those with less hook in the butt and less stock drop, along the lines of the TVM Virginias and to a lesser degree, Landcasters.

One of my 62's is stocked along the lines of a Tennessee or southern rifle with plenty of drop and hook. Even down at the 120 grains of 2f I've settled on for trajectory, that thing eats my lunch unless I hold it just exactly right. Yet that 120 grain load shoots nowhere near as flat as a 58 with as little as 90 grains.

The 62 really prefers 140 grains of 2f, yet I just can't pack the freight with that load. My premium GRRW 58 caliber Hawken (36" and 12.5#) on the other hand is a real "long range" specialist at 140 grains of 2f, yet due to stock design is a maiden's kiss on the back end. Never found a load in the 62 that will shoot so flat, mostly cuzz I think I'd need to be up in the 180 grain charge range to do it. Waaay too rarefied atmosphere for this kids' shoulder in that southern/Tennessee stock! :rotf:
 
You say your inexperienced and looking in to getting into the sport. I will only give you my opinion.

You might want to consider a run of the mill factory gun just to see if shooting BP is really what you want to do? Shelling out a bunch of money for one just starting off may not be a wise decision . Just some food for thought my friend. It's only my humble opinion. Your time and your money and only you know what you want.

I hope you find what you're looking for my friend!

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:
 
I agree with cowboy go with the Great Plains rifle in 54 and see if you like it 54 will down an elk and bear
 
For a first rifle, and one that will shoot right along side any custom regardless of price, I have to agree on the GPR in .54, although I have 3 .54s and one .50. But then again, I only have four of them, so I need to get a few more before I can really say for sure that the average GPR is as good as the ones I currently have.
 
I would also suggest you might want to consider Cowboy and Flinter's points. I would further suggest that you see if there are any muzzleloading clubs or shooters in your area and contact them about doing some shooting with their guns.

Most BP shooters are more than happy to share their experiences with others. If I'm at the local range (mostly modern firearm shooters) and someone expresses an interest in my traditional muzzleloaders I'm more than happy to let them do some shooting.

That would give you a start in what goes into shooting a muzzleloader. Also, if you hang around some experienced shooters and see some of the variety of arms available that will give you direction in the type of rifle to purchase. $1000+ is a lot to spend to find that you don't really care for front stuffers.
 
mornin stick man I am really new to ML. I bought a great used 50 cal cabelas hawken she is not as large of caliber or as long of a rifle, like you are looking at, but she is fun to shoot . the lyman great plains was another rifle I was looking at. cowboy brought up very good points. As you look at different rifles ask the folks on this site I learned allot from this site before I bought mine. good luck and welcome!
 
I fully agree with Brown Bear on TVM as an excellent source for a very good rifle within your price range. TVM builds excellent guns. I might add that you are looking for more gun than you need for what you are hunting. Those .58s and .62s will take more powder and lead to feed them and you will take more punishment from recoil than a .54 which will do all that you are asking for. My personal recommendation would be one of the Southern TVM rifles in .54 caliber. http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/southern-rifle

I'd highly recommend a percussion lock to begin with. Flintlocks are a lot of fun and I think they are more esthetically pleasing in appearance but they require a bit more fiddling. They are just a bit more picky about what they will shoot as far as ball size, patch thickness and powder charge. A caplock is a better choice for first muzzleloading gun. Caplocks will shoot all of the synthetic substitute powders if you had to do that, while a flintlock will take only real black powder. None of the substitute powders will work in a flintlock. :shake:

Another thing that I highly recommend is a copy of Dutch's muzzleloading accuracy systems. It will be the best money that you can spend on your new hobby. www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

This is just free advice from an old fart and is probably overpriced at that. :grin:
 
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Stick Man said:
I prefer Eastern styled rifles to Western styled ones.

That's what led me to the TVM recommendation, rather than a GPR 54. I dunno of a single Eastern style rifle in the same price range that can compare for quality, much as I love my assorted GPR's.


Billnpatti said:
I might add that you are looking for more gun than you need for what you are hunting. Those .58s and .62s will take more powder and lead to feed them and you will take more punishment from recoil than a .54 which will do all that you are asking for.

This is just free advice from an old fart and is probably overpriced at that. :grin:

Much as I love 58's, I have to concede your point. I have even more 54's than 58's and I have spanked a lot of game with them. They're just dandy for elk. Move up to moose and I've never even tried a 54, though. Put the biggest piles of powder under a ball for flatter trajectories, and the recoil of a 54 is lots easier to enjoy than a 58 even as the 54 shoots flatter. And that's certainly what a guy is talking about if he's contemplating shooting bigger animals at longish ranges.

I might not be quite as old as you Billnpatti, but I'm betting my free advice is even more overpriced than yours! :rotf:
 
"You say your inexperienced and looking in to getting into the sport. I will only give you my opinion.

You might want to consider a run of the mill factory gun just to see if shooting BP is really what you want to do? Shelling out a bunch of money for one just starting off may not be a wise decision . Just some food for thought my friend. It's only my humble opinion. Your time and your money and only you know what you want."


About the best advice you will receive and well worth it.
 
A plain, in-the-white TVM Virginia or early Lancaster in either .50 or .54 would answer your needs. I won't recommend a percussion over a flint because I like the reliability and P/C of a flintlock. There is a learning curve but a good lock will flatten out that curve. I own more than one TVM and have never looked back.
 
You have received a lot of great advice so far but I have a couple of things to add.

I basically want to find a good quality but plain Jane working percussion rifle. I prefer Eastern styled rifles to Western styled ones.

For a production gun this one should fit the bill in the .54 version. I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it. And it's on sale. http://www.cabelas.com/product/sho...hotguns/_/N-1115738/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_104641380

I don't know of any production longrifles available in calibers larger than .54.
For a .58 or .62 you will probably have to go with either the TVM or another great option is Tip Curtis. Tip can be reached at 615-654-4445. Keep trying, it's worth it. Tip builds a really nice rifle for the money but I'm not sure if he builds percussion guns.

The GPR is a great rifle for the price but is not Eastern. They are very good shooters tho. I have owned several and still have one in .54 caliber.

And, something else to consider...
Have you thought about getting that .58 or .62 in smoothbore? Smoothbores are a very versatile option. If I had it to do all over again, I would start by buying a smoothbore.

One last thing, Keep an eye on the classifieds here and elsewhere. You just never know when something good will show up.
 
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Here is another option for you - 1863 Remington .58 Caliber Contract rifle (Zouave). You can shoot Minie or ball - a lot of knock down power. Here are some shots at 420 yds with the Minie
 
I would consider TVM or Tip Curtis. I think either one can give you what you want at your price. There are also some other custom gun makers out there that might be able to give you a plain rifle at your price.

I have a TVM Late Lancaster which I like very much. They did right by me. :thumbsup:
 
HEY if you are good with your hands try track of the wolf gun kits and try a flintlock so if you don't like shooting it you can use it as a wall hanger and if you do like it then you got bitten by the flintlock bug :wink:
 

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