Swiss vs. Goex

[FlintlockHunter]

I have not used Swiss before. What are the advantages and how should it compare? I was hoping to replace the Goex 2 and 3F with a cleaner, more accurate powder since I am running low. Thanks.

 

[shootemup]

I'm not sure what you mean by more accurate powder, but Swiss is definitely hotter. I really like Swiss powder, although I'm not fanatical about it :wink:
As far as advantages go, I suppose you could use less of it for the same velocities, and being a hotter powder it probably burns a little cleaner.
I even use 3f Swiss in my 20 gauge fowler. Have fun, keep us posted -

Spot

 

[jdixon]

Stand by - you'll get a lot of heated comments on this one.
Swiss gives me almost 200 fps more velocity than the same load with red can Goex. This in a .50 cal flinter w/ a 36" barrel. Now, is that 200 fps necessary? For busting paper I would say no, for hunting, yes. I adjust my point of aim and use Goex for target shooting and practice. Just before hunting season I will break out the Swiss and start practicing with the full hunting load. The Swiss POA is quit a bit different than that of the Goex, takes some getting use to. Swiss is almost 2X what Goex is retail anymore. I like the Swiss performance but, I like the Goex price and the fact it is U.S. made. Your call, I would buy up a few of each myself.

 

[longcruise]

Last time I bought Swiss it ran me about $15 per can. I'm down to the last can (plastic bottle actually) and probably won't buy any more given the current pricing. I can buy goex mail order for $11 and Grafs (schutzen) for $10 and even though the Swiss is hotter (I got almost 200 fps more velocity from my .54) and a bit cleaner, I can't see the extra dough for it.

As far as accuracy goes, I've not measured the difference but am satisfied with the graf and goex results.

 

[shmrck1]

FlintlockHunter,
Here again I am with 'marmotslayer' for the
difference in price I don't see any significant
advantage to using Swiss over Goex.I am
satisfied with the results I get from Goex and
for that matter Graf powder.Keep in mind I am a hunter not a target shooter,so what I may be
satisfied with,you may not.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Invest in some screens to screen your FFg and FFFg Goex powders and they will shoot as cleanly as does Swiss. Velocities may be a bit lower, as you have already found, but for the difference in price, you can add 5-10 grains to make up that extra velocity.

 

[Bob J]

Personally, I haven't used Swiss. But accuracy in my rifles is so good with Goex, with the right load, that I wouldn'y pay the extra $8.00 or $10.00/lbs for Swiss.

 

[redwing]

I use Swiss Null-B{4F} in the pan. It is very clean. I use Graf, KIK, Goex Wano for the main charge. I shoot Swiss 1 1/2F in my Sharps and Remington Ctg. guns.

Swiss is a fine product. I shoot over a case of powder per year so the cost of Swiss is too much. I buy one can of Swiss Null-B per case of 3f. This works out very well.

I have found the KIK powder in 3 F to be very clean. Have also had to cut the charges as it seems to be a little hotter. It also works well in the pan. :thumbsup:

 

[Dave K]

I have three powders here. Goex,Schuetzen and Swiss. I love the Swiss, it is so much cleaner for me than Schuetzen and that is cleaner than Goex. Everyone will have a reason why they use the powder they use or don't use a different powder. For me in the rifles, I use Swiss, but I would use Schuetzen or Goex if I couldn't get Swiss.

 

[FlintlockHunter]

My key concern is which powder burns cleanest while producing the most accurate groups and or best patterns. I have used Goex for a long time and found it to be good but if Swiss is better then that will cause me to switch. Being that I am running low and all the seasons are about to start, I will be making an order soon. I just hate to order a load of something and find out that I made an error. I can find no dealer that carries Swiss so testing out a can isn't going to happen. It does run about $5. a can more but if it is that much better than I will pay the price.

 

[jdixon]

You can mail order in Swiss from places like Powder Inc. Track of the Wolf also sells it but, they limit you to a 25 lb. shipment.

 

[Dave K]

I bought a case, when I first heard of it and I have not regretted it at all! I love it. I think it was Bill Knight has posted some testing with it and it showed to have very little FPS variation. With that in mind, once you find a load your gun likes, it should be very accurate for you. I do not use it in the shotguns, just in the rifles.

 

[roundball]

Sounds like you've really pretty much decided to go with the Swiss, but just to add my .02 cents anyway, Goex 3F is very fast, clean and accurate...I already don't have to wipe between shots as it is and still have to clean my muzzleloaders when I get home so I never saw any point if buying a case of Swiss for $18/can for something that a case of Goex at $11/can does just as well...always wondered if Swiss was a little bit of a solution in search of a problem.

I've also wondered if Swiss's claims are mainly based upon their granulations mostly being size offsets from the norm, for example, does 2F leans more towards 3F, does 3F leans more towards 4F granulations, etc...but really don't know.

PS: Goex markets their own product to compete against Swiss, but I doubt seriously Goex made whosesale changes to their BP manufacturing process, using different wood and all that stuff...I suspect they just use more 'fines' per granulation, and jack up the price another several dollars a can.

 

[Dave K]

Another way to look at the higher price of Swiss to Goex, is the number shots you get from each lb. of powder. Both my 50cal.(180gr. ball) shoots well with 70gr. of Swiss. To get the same POI and still shooting well, it takes 85gr. of Goex. So with Swiss, there is 100 shots to the lb., with Goex, there is 83 shots to the lb. Using the prices of powder last time I bought both Swiss and Goex(on the same day, at Friendship), it was $16 a lb. for Swiss or .16 a shot. For Goex it was $11 a lb. or .13 a shot. So in a 100 shots, the Swiss will cost me $3 more over the Goex. I still like Swiss, but I certainly find Goex to be good powder as well. I see people discuss which perc. cap is better, flint is better or who makes the most accurate ball. If all these things add up to you feeling it is giving you your best shot and that makes it worthwhile to you, do it. More math to ponder. If you are headed into the wilderness with 10 lbs. of powder, if you took Goex you would get 170 less shots, or a savings of almost 4.4 lbs in lead would not need to carry or the price of that lead. Or would you rather carry 10 lbs of Swiss and have 170 more shots but need to carry more lead to use all the powder, plus more patching and lube? :hmm: Bottom line, try what you like and you will find a good reason to be using what you use. :wink:

 

[FlintlockHunter]

I guess what I am getting at, is since I have no experience with Swiss, I don't know what I am missing. I'd hate to not use something if it is vastly superior just because I didn't know any better. My immediate need is to feed my .62 rifle, 20, and 12ga. smoothbores for this season. I hope to do a lot of deer and bird hunting. I do use .45, .50, and .54 and will need powder for these as well. All are flint. I don't want a stock pile of the wrong powder. According to the Swiss chart, if I use 2Fg now I should go to No.3 and if 3Fg then No.2. What about 1.5Fg and No.4? I have read that the 1.5/No.4 was the ticket for BPCR and a good choice for equaling 2FFg. Looks Like I will be ordering the Swiss along with some Goex just in case. Just need some advice as to which size. Thanks.

 

[roundball]

Another way to look at the higher price of Swiss to Goex, is the number shots you get from each lb. of powder. Both my 50cal.(180gr. ball) shoots well with 70gr. of Swiss. To get the same POI and still shooting well, it takes 85gr. of Goex. So with Swiss, there is 100 shots to the lb., with Goex, there is 83 shots to the lb. Using the prices of powder last time I bought both Swiss and Goex(on the same day, at Friendship), it was $16 a lb. for Swiss or .16 a shot. For Goex it was $11 a lb. or .13 a shot. So in a 100 shots, the Swiss will cost me $3 more over the Goex. I still like Swiss, but I certainly find Goex to be good powder as well. I see people discuss which perc. cap is better, flint is better or who makes the most accurate ball. If all these things add up to you feeling it is giving you your best shot and that makes it worthwhile to you, do it. More math to ponder. If you are headed into the wilderness with 10 lbs. of powder, if you took Goex you would get 170 less shots, or a savings of almost 4.4 lbs in lead would not need to carry or the price of that lead. Or would you rather carry 10 lbs of Swiss and have 170 more shots but need to carry more lead to use all the powder, plus more patching and lube? :hmm: Bottom line, try what you like and you will find a good reason to be using what you use. :wink:

GOEX WAS $11 A POUND AT FRIENDSHIP...WITH NO SHIPPING...WITH NO HAZMAT FEES???


Heck, even at that price the vast majority of people do not go to Friendship...they buy locally or order from a supplier, so we need to compare apples to apples for business cases... :wink:...but never the less, I agree people should buy what they want.

I just still haven't seen a single thing that Swiss is better at than Goex in any category that matters...ie: accuracy or eliminating the need to wipe between shots...so the bottom line to me is that Swiss offers absolutely nothing that Goex doesn't already provide except a higher price tag


PS: Did I mention that Goex is the best American made price/performer black powder in existence?
:grin:

 

[Dave K]

Well, I wasn't going to concern myself with the nickel difference in price that I mentioned before. But, like I said, this is what it was on the day I bought it.

You did make me curious thought what powder was now being advertised though through Maine Powder House and also Powder Inc. At Maine Powder House, today on the internet,Swiss is $17.68 and Goex is $12.00. From Powder Inc., today on the internet, Swiss is $17.45 and Goex is $11.75. I would assume you may find better prices through more searching. As you can see these prices are close to about a straight across the board increase of 10% in what I paid, when I bought it. Hardly consider this as mixing fruit.

As you can see though, some are very adamant about what they prefer. That is great for buisness and the competition of different powders and sources is what gives us quality products. Even Goex came out with a different grade of powder to encourage their buyers from not buying from another manufacture.

Don't know what else to say but try it yourself and see what you or your gun prefers. Now, in the rifles over 50cal. I shoot 2F Swiss since I like the way it shoots and also lack of fouling. Some will insist that 3F Goex will work as well and give less fouling, than 2F Goex. Shucks, your call, try it and see in the rifles. In the smooth bores (mine are all shotguns), I use 2F Goex or 2F Schuetzen. Not shooting that far and a shotgun is not that scientific to scatter a bunch of shot. You certainly should pattern a shotgun though to know what charge it likes best.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dave: I am more concerned with lower SDV, than the cleaning issue. If you clean between shots, as I do, how clean any powder burns is irrelevant.You can buy Goex FFg and screen it yourself to remove fines. I found that screened FFg shoots very clean in my .50. I get lower SDV by screening the powder, and then by lubing the bore after seating the ball. With that, I reap the benefit of buying an American made product, at a substantial savings in cost.

 

[roundball]

:grin:
Dave, you like Swiss and I'm not trying to get you to change anything...continue to use Swiss.

I simply responded to a post about Swiss and made the point that Swiss provides nothing extra that Goex doesn't already provide me like accuracy, not wiping between shots, etc...plus Goex sells at a significantly lower price...that's all.
:v

 

[Headhunter]

It should go BOOM when you pull the trigger. But then again so does GOEX for less money.

Headhunter