T/C .50 Cal Hawken bore size

[Springypond]

I have a .50 Cal Hawken, early model, ser # 60035.
Recently sent to TC/ Smith &Wesson because the main spring guide broke.
TC-Smith returned it to me saying it was obsolete and that the bore was oversized and unsafe! No details have been provided.
I had the bore measured and compared with an unfired Hawken-ser# 234706.
Results: bore on both-lands-.500
Grooves- ser# 60035-.510
Unfited - ser#234706-.507
The our side barrel was also inspected for bulges and irregularities-none found!
Does anyone know how this could be considered unsafe?
I have fired both with excellent accuracy and feel the company just doesn’t want to honor the warranty.
Thanks

 

[Carbon 6]

Did they mean the bore of the gun or the bore of the hole that the guide pin fits into ?

L&R makes replacement locks, Ebay probably has locks or lock parts. Any machinist could make a new guide pin.
Screw the warranty and screw T/C . Just my opinion.

 

[SDSmlf]

Welcome to the forum.

• Not sure what the ‘main spring guide’ is, could you post a photograph? Someone may be able to help you.
• From what you say the bore sounds fine. Is there some other bit of information not being stated? The slighted larger groove diameter (compared to the unfired gun) should give you better accuracy with patched round ball.
• After S&W purchased TC the lifetime warranty deal went away.

 

[Carbon 6]

Not sure what the ‘main spring guide’ is,

I think he is referring to the guide rod that runs down the center of the coil mainspring. How it ever broke is beyond me.

 

[Carbon 6]

Upper center pin that is inside the coil spring. i think that is called the guide.

 

[SDSmlf]

I think he is referring to the guide rod that runs down the center of the coil mainspring. How it ever broke is beyond me.

Could see the guide rod being stressed over time if improperly removed/installed, though they are pretty stout. Easy part to make (with a lathe) and should also be available from places like Numrich.

 

[Nutnfancy]

You might try Track of The Wolf or Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporium, both have parts for locks. At Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporium you may need to request a catalog to look up the part. Also you might check with one of the gun builders like Jim Chambers.

 

[Springypond]

Did they mean the bore of the gun or the bore of the hole that the guide pin fits into ?

L&R makes replacement locks, Ebay probably has locks or lock parts. Any machinist could make a new guide pin.
Screw the warranty and screw T/C . Just my opinion.

They are referring to the barrel diameter. They use a go/no go device. I suspect it is calibrated for newer Hawken barrels and not for my original early manufactured.
I know there were at least 3 generations of modifications.

 

[Springypond]

Could see the guide rod being stressed over time if improperly removed/installed, though they are pretty stout. Easy part to make (with a lathe) and should also be available from places like Numrich.

I didn’t know what broke until they sent it back and yes, the tip of that quite broke and they wouldn’t replace it because they said the barrel was oversized. Didn’t and won’t give any numbers.

 

[Springypond]

Welcome to the forum.

• Not sure what the ‘main spring guide’ is, could you post a photograph? Someone may be able to help you.
• From what you say the bore sounds fine. Is there some other bit of information not being stated? The slighted larger groove diameter (compared to the unfired gun) should give you better accuracy with patched round ball.
• After S&W purchased TC the lifetime warranty deal went away.

 

[Springypond]

Welcome to the forum.

• Not sure what the ‘main spring guide’ is, could you post a photograph? Someone may be able to help you.
• From what you say the bore sounds fine. Is there some other bit of information not being stated? The slighted larger groove diameter (compared to the unfired gun) should give you better accuracy with patched round ball.
• After S&W purchased TC the lifetime warranty deal went away.

 

[Springypond]

Thanks, my thoughts exactly.
my plan is to replace the spring guide rod and continue to shoot it.

 

[Nutnfancy]

I can't see what a broken spring guide has to do with the bore size, two completely different pieces. Sounds like a typical BS reason not to replace the guide. Besides, I'll bet they don't have one or even know where to get one..........
I agree, I would replace it and keep shooting. Those barrels are tougher than T/C gives them credit for. As long as you don't overcharge the gun there should be no problem.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

gun works appears to have one in stock.

 

[Carbon 6]

They are referring to the barrel diameter. They use a go/no go device. I suspect it is calibrated for newer Hawken barrels and not for my original early manufactured.
I know there were at least 3 generations of modifications.

That sounds ridiculous.

 

[Carbon 6]

Wow! T/C and Smith and Wesson just lost 2 customers. You and I .
Not only did they not fix your gun but they told you it was obsolete and unsafe, thereby ending the warranty and absolving them of any future liability.

That is very shady IMO.
I would question them as to why it's unsafe. But I would never send it back to them.

What did they offer you for a new gun and how much did they discount ?

 

[Carbon 6]

For those who don't know. T/C is owned by American Outdoor Brands Inc.


American Outdoor Brands owns 18 brands specializing in firearms, firearms accessories, and other outdoor goods. Among these brands are:

Firearms

• Smith & Wesson -General firearm, ammunition, and restraint manufacturer
• M&P by Smith & Wesson -Brand name of several Semi-automatic pistols and rifles
• Thompson/Center -Precision Semi-Automatic and Bolt action Rifle manufacturer
• Performance Center by Smith & Wesson -Gunsmith
• Gemtech Suppressors -Suppressor manufacturer

Electro-Optics

• Crimson Trace -Flashlight, Weapon light, and aiming device manufacturer

Outdoor Goods and Accessories

• Bog -Manufactures tripods and shooting rests
• Caldwell -Manufactures targets and shooting rests
• Frankford Arsenal -Manufactures reloading tools
• Golden Rod -Manufactures dehumidifiers and moisture sensors for safes and lock boxes
• Hooyman -Manufactures Landscaping tools and portable power saws
• Imperial -Manufactures fixed and folding blade knives
• Lockdown -Manufactures gun safes, lock boxes, gun locks, and accessories
• M&P Accessories -Manufactures firearm accessories
• Old Timer -Manufactures fixed and folding blade knives as well as accessories
• Schrade -Manufactures fixed and folding blade knives as well as accessories
• Smith & Wesson Accessories -Manufactures firearm accessories
• Thompson/Center Accessories -Manufactures firearm accessories
• Tipton -Manufactures firearm cleaning accessories
• Uncle Henry -Manufactures fixed and folding blade knives as well as accessories
• Wheeler Engineering -Manufactures gunsmithing tools
• Bubba -Manufactures knives, tools, and accessories for fishing

Manufacturing Services

• Smith & Wesson Precision Components -Custom manufacturing service
• Smith & Wesson -Custom manufacturing service

 

[Cattman]

my tc bore size in 50 cal was .50 on the top of the lands. .492 on the bottom of the lands. some 50/s i have had made were varring from that a thousands or two. some inlines i run into were way diff. than that. .504 top of the lands and never did do the bottom of the grooves. it makes no diff. if the barrel i made well and the bullet fits it will shoot the way you want. maybe inline were over sized so they loaded easier. possible.

 

[Springypond]

Wow! T'C and Smith and Wesson just lost 2 customers. You and I .
Not only did they not fix your gun but they told you it was obsolete and unsafe, thereby ending the warranty and absolving them of any future liability.

That is very shady IMO.
I would question them as to why it's unsafe. But I would never send it back to them.

What did they offer you for a new gun and how much did they discount ?

I agree, very shady, I have asked for dimensions and have been told they aren’t available, just go/no go!
I didn’t inquire on the BP offer as I have a modern bone collector and an 1858 new army.
The bore deal just doesn’t jive, the latest from them confirms it’s just a liability issue! Sucks!

 

[Zonie]

My old Dixie Gun Works catalog says the .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken barrel has a bore size of .500. The rifling groove diameter is .510 making the grooves .005 deep.

The bore on my TC .50 cal Hawken measures .501 at the muzzle and I consider it to be totally safe to shoot. The outside of the barrel measures .938 or, 15/16" across the flats of the octagon.

I'm mentioning this 15/16" because Lyman also uses a 15/16" octagon barrel and makes it in both .50 caliber and .54 caliber. IMO, if Lymans GPR can use a .54 caliber bore in a barrel that size, a few thousandths of an inch oversize in the TC barrel's bore means nothing. I'm sure the TC barrel is made from a steel that is every bit as strong as the Lyman barrels.