T/C .50 Cal Hawken bore size

[Springypond]

T

Mine, as close as I can measure carefully, appears to be .508/.500. That seems reasonable for a button-rifled barrel. A groove depth of .004 is typical most of the way through the cartridge rifle world -- .308/.300, .264/.256, etc.

 

[Springypond]

T

Thanks, appreciate the info.

 

[Pete G]

That sounds ridiculous.

Most answers from the legal department are ridiculous.

 

[SDSmlf]

Asked S&W about a TC instruction that could (and did) cause a component to fail. Their repeated answer was that it shouldn’t fail. Part was obsolete and no longer available. Asked what I should do after it failed and their only answer was it shouldn’t happen.

They seem to be nothing more than word weasels when you ask for assistance on their more senior products.

 

[Springypond]

Asked S&W about a TC instruction that could (and did) cause a component to fail. Their repeated answer was that it shouldn’t fail. Part was obsolete and no longer available. Asked what I should do after it failed and their only answer was it shouldn’t happen.

They seem to be nothing more than word weasels when you ask for assistance on their more senior products.

Exactly, not helpful at all!

 

[Zonie]

I could be wrong but I don't understand a go-nogo gauge in a ML. I understand in a cartridge rifle for the chamber, but a ML is completely different and I wonder if there is such a thing, or if he just used something from a cartridge gun thinking it would work the same. Some guns with bad rifling have their barrels refreshed to make it shoot good again and that would slightly enlarge the bore and that is not unsafe.

Go and No Go gauges are quite common for inspecting something like a bore.

The bore has some tolerance or allowed deviation from its nominal size. For instance a .50 caliber bore might have a tolerance of +/- .001 of an inch. This makes the allowable bore size .4990 - .5010.

The "Go Guage" would be made to the smallest size, that being .4990". It must always "Go" into the bore. If it doesn't, some part of the bore, or all of it is smaller than .4990.
The "No Go Guage" is made at the largest size or in this case, .5011". It should not be possible for it to enter the bore using just hand pressure to insert it.
If it does go into the bore, the bore is oversize.

 

[RB POWELL]

I could be wrong but I don't understand a go-nogo gauge in a ML. I understand in a cartridge rifle for the chamber, but a ML is completely different and I wonder if there is such a thing, or if he just used something from a cartridge gun thinking it would work the same. Some guns with bad rifling have their barrels refreshed to make it shoot good again and that would slightly enlarge the bore and that is not unsafe.

I also am confused (ignorant?) about a go-no go gauge in a muzzle loader. I have used them in old military unmentionables with bolts. Don't know. Could be somebody blowing smoke, and hoping you know less than he does.

 

[RB POWELL]

I also am confused (ignorant?) about a go-no go gauge in a muzzle loader. I have used them in old military unmentionables with bolts. Don't know. Could be somebody blowing smoke, and hoping you know less than he does.

To check head space.

 

[Boommeup]

I don’t get it Zonie! Bigger bore bigger patches? Felt wads? That little bit of wear, in my opinion wouldn’t effect the barrel other then accuracy! Of course I could be wrong!!!

 

[SDSmlf]

Go and No Go gauges are quite common for inspecting something like a bore.

The bore has some tolerance or allowed deviation from its nominal size. For instance a .50 caliber bore might have a tolerance of +/- .001 of an inch. This makes the allowable bore size .4990 - .5010.

The "Go Guage" would be made to the smallest size, that being .4990". It must always "Go" into the bore. If it doesn't, some part of the bore, or all of it is smaller than .4990.
The "No Go Guage" is made at the largest size or in this case, .5011". It should not be possible for it to enter the bore using just hand pressure to insert it.
If it does go into the bore, the bore is oversize.

Go NoGo gauges are typically used to check functional sizes and don’t provide any variable data. One reason none was provided. One guess in this case is the tech used their Go NoGo gauges that would be used to check a non traditional 50 caliber muzzleloader (that’s all TC makes today) and the bore size tolerances are likely tighter/different than traditional folks would think to accommodate those French shoe things used in the non traditional muzzleloaders. Thus the rejection for bore size being out of spec. If you only have one gauge..... Like the old saying about someone owning just one tool and it happens to be a hammer. Everything they see must be a nail so they hit it. That’s all they know. Just a thought.

 

[Boommeup]

LOL SD! Maybe they used a go/no go for a 50 BMG!

 

[SDSmlf]

LOL SD! Maybe they used a go/no go for a 50 BMG!

Got a question for you. Somebody hands you a barrel, say from a non traditional muzzleloader and tells you to check the bore dimensions to spec, how would you do it?

 

[Boommeup]

Well! I’m not a gunsmith by any means! I guess I’d either measure off the muzzle or try an slug the barrel somehow. Provided the breech plug comes off. I can still swing a pretty big hammer, for a short while anyways!

 

[mooman76]

It's easy enough to do without removing the breech plug.

 

[Boommeup]

I’m listening! Do you pop it out like a stuck ram rod?

 

[SDSmlf]

One way would be use pin gauges, though it doesn’t give rifling diameter or depth. That’s what I use to measure the bore. And just a FYI, TC non traditional muzzleloader bores are known to be tighter (smaller) than many other manufacturers, and very consistent. While I have and use pin gauges (and get a number to within about .0005” when checking a bore), a service tech or a returns person would likely have a Go NoGo gauge as they stated. This gives them two diameters they can check. If the Go gauge doesn’t go into the barrel, it is out of spec, no good. If the NoGo gauge goes into the bore, it is out of spec, and no good. In their mind, no good if it fails either gauge. Thinking about, likely what happened. Obsolete gun, no spare parts, no support. Job likely given to somebody not overly skilled, no matter what they say.

Here is what a set of pin gauges look like.

 

[Boommeup]

That’s a first! Never seen those before. If you’ll read my earlier post from this morning. I tried to slug my barrel with a maxi ball! Thought I might be able to get some grooves to go by. Well, that didn’t work to well at all! But why was it pushing hard easy then hard again. This bores pretty rough so that might explain it. I was on my first cup of coffee at the time!

 

[mooman76]

Before you drive a slug in, place a heavy brass or steel rod wrapped in tape in a well lubed bore. Then you can use the weight of the rod to drive it back out. I prefer to use a RB just over bore size. They go in easier.

 

[Springypond]

Go and No Go gauges are quite common for inspecting something like a bore.

The bore has some tolerance or allowed deviation from its nominal size. For instance a .50 caliber bore might have a tolerance of +/- .001 of an inch. This makes the allowable bore size .4990 - .5010.

The "Go Guage" would be made to the smallest size, that being .4990". It must always "Go" into the bore. If it doesn't, some part of the bore, or all of it is smaller than .4990.
The "No Go Guage" is made at the largest size or in this case, .5011". It should not be possible for it to enter the bore using just hand pressure to insert it.
If it does go into the bore, the bore is oversize.

You guys have certainly gone above and beyond to explain the go/no go! Thanks so much!

 

[Boommeup]

Did you catch the part, about still being on my first cup of coffee this morning Springypond?