I have a 54 Cal T/C Hawken that I built from a kit in 1980. Barrel has a 1 in 48" twist. I haven't used it in 30 years now. It never did shoot the round ball very accurately. I am hoping to try something new that will give me better accuracy when I go elk hunting in September. Any help on powder & projectiles will be very helpful. I will be using a CCI # 11 magnum or Remington #11 primer. Thanks.
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T/C 54 Cal Hawken
- Thread starter kstillwa
- Start date
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been lurking here for awhile but had to reply to this one.
by try something new I think you mean a new load for this rifle and not a new rifle, correct.
first check the game laws where you intend to hunt, they may limit your choice.
I also have a TC 54 from that era that my dad built from a kit.
accuracy is in the eye of the beholder, but I had no issues with mine at 50 yrds with PRB, however I wanted something heavier for elk so I tried the Hornady great plains conical.
results were poor, couldn't get them inside a 5 inch circle at 50 yrds. let alone a group. went back to PRB for that elk season.
later after hours of searching these pages I found info that a felt wad placed under the conical has improved accuracy for some in these rifles.
after some research I found some lubed wads (wonder wads) online and ordered some. on my first hurried trip to the range I only took two shots due to short on time but it went from my previous nonexistant group to 2 shots overlaping by half their diameter. thought I had it solved.
now my problem is, they are hitting very low and I run out of sight adjustment to bring them up. unwilling at this time to change my sight I have again gone back to PRB.
one other observation, I use goax black powder and the conical would get very hard to load on the third shot without swabbing the bore, I get at least twice that with the PRB.
I'm sure you will get more experienced replys, I am a beginner but thought my limited experiments might be helpful.
oh and last time elk hunting I didn't get a shot, going to try again this year. Dad really wants me to get an elk with his gun
by try something new I think you mean a new load for this rifle and not a new rifle, correct.
first check the game laws where you intend to hunt, they may limit your choice.
I also have a TC 54 from that era that my dad built from a kit.
accuracy is in the eye of the beholder, but I had no issues with mine at 50 yrds with PRB, however I wanted something heavier for elk so I tried the Hornady great plains conical.
results were poor, couldn't get them inside a 5 inch circle at 50 yrds. let alone a group. went back to PRB for that elk season.
later after hours of searching these pages I found info that a felt wad placed under the conical has improved accuracy for some in these rifles.
after some research I found some lubed wads (wonder wads) online and ordered some. on my first hurried trip to the range I only took two shots due to short on time but it went from my previous nonexistant group to 2 shots overlaping by half their diameter. thought I had it solved.
now my problem is, they are hitting very low and I run out of sight adjustment to bring them up. unwilling at this time to change my sight I have again gone back to PRB.
one other observation, I use goax black powder and the conical would get very hard to load on the third shot without swabbing the bore, I get at least twice that with the PRB.
I'm sure you will get more experienced replys, I am a beginner but thought my limited experiments might be helpful.
oh and last time elk hunting I didn't get a shot, going to try again this year. Dad really wants me to get an elk with his gun
Off the shelf I wpould try the T/C Maxiball (not maxi hunter) I think they are about 425gn with 90 - 100gn FFg. I am shooting a Lyman with the Hunter barrel (1:30") and shoot Lyman Great Plains 450gn bullet (gotta buy the mold) llubed with Lee liquid Alox, after Brown Bear on here recommended them to me.
Holy manure they are a cool bullet. I also use lubed wonder wads. Guess what? They are dead on with Hornady great plains bullet & T/C Maxi Ball all with 100gn FFg.
I shoot patched (0.015 ticking) .535 roundballs over 50 -60gns FFg and they are also on the bullseye. I am so confident with this setup it feels like cheating at times. I sight 2" high at 50m for a 75m zero and it is 4" low at 100m.
I have a very formiddable big game rifle that can be loaded down for target shooting or meat hunting.
I believe with the 1:48 twist you need to go easy with the roundballs, say 70-80gn FFg & speed up your conicals,say 100 -110gn FFg, generally speaking. Hope that gives some food for thought.
Holy manure they are a cool bullet. I also use lubed wonder wads. Guess what? They are dead on with Hornady great plains bullet & T/C Maxi Ball all with 100gn FFg.
I shoot patched (0.015 ticking) .535 roundballs over 50 -60gns FFg and they are also on the bullseye. I am so confident with this setup it feels like cheating at times. I sight 2" high at 50m for a 75m zero and it is 4" low at 100m.
I have a very formiddable big game rifle that can be loaded down for target shooting or meat hunting.
I believe with the 1:48 twist you need to go easy with the roundballs, say 70-80gn FFg & speed up your conicals,say 100 -110gn FFg, generally speaking. Hope that gives some food for thought.
I have the same gun from the same period of time.
I used to shoot the 530 RB and had the same problem.Once I went to a 535 RB / .15 patch /90 gr.goex it shoots real good.
Also mine only shoots good with Goex, the 777 and other powders just don't work like goex.
I used to shoot the 530 RB and had the same problem.Once I went to a 535 RB / .15 patch /90 gr.goex it shoots real good.
Also mine only shoots good with Goex, the 777 and other powders just don't work like goex.
The original T/C rifles of that era used button rifling, read that as very shallow. The usual result is that round ball loads with heavy charges of black powder tended to skip over the rifling. Keep the round ball shooting to the lighter loads. The guns were made for the T/C Maxi-ball round and can be quite accurate with the hunting charges.
Find the T/C maxi-ball or a similar sized bullet. Lubricate them with a soft lubricant such as T/C's maxi-lube. They will be the correct size to engrave on the rifling at loading.
Find the T/C maxi-ball or a similar sized bullet. Lubricate them with a soft lubricant such as T/C's maxi-lube. They will be the correct size to engrave on the rifling at loading.
Flash Pan Dan
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2010
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- 810
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Skipped over the rifling? Really? So you are saying that in a barrel with .005 of an inch deep rifling with a 1 in 48 twist using an very malleable lead ball in a tight patch with a heavy load of black powder, the ball did not spin? And the recovered ball would be unmarked or would have, what, straight striations? Even though there are pictures on this forum of recovered lead balls that show the weave marks on the ball from the patch? Really???? I’m sorry I am compelled to challenge such an assertion. What am I missing?
longcruise
70 Cal.
Yeah, been reading this same thing for years on the net. Cannot see any evidence for such a thing happening. That said, I even arrived at that conclusion myself in my first year of shooting my TC Hawken back in about 75.
I had that identical rifle which I gave away to a son in law who later divorced out of the family. I sure miss that gun, but not the son in law. :haha:
I won some matches with that rifle but it did take some fiddling to get it to shoot. I finally ended up with a .530 ball, 80 grains of goex ff and a patch thick enough to be quite hard to start. That same load killed a nice bull elk, so there is no doubt about it's efficacy in the field. You need a patch that is not only thick enough, but it needs to be tough!
Some things that you will hear about your rifle is that the rifling is too shallow or that the 1:48 twist won't shoot a ball. Just practice ignoring those bits of "wisdom".
I would suggest that you take your rifle to the range with three or four potential patch materials of varying thickness. Also take along some .530 and .535 balls. Use a grease type lube of your choice. wipe after every shot, and test fire at least three of those different patches each with both of the ball sizes over about 100 grains of powder.
Don't bother checking your targets or groups. You don't even need to aim at anything! After each three shots, pick up the patches and "read" them. Look for the ball and patch combo that does the least damage to the patch. Find the combo that does not cut your patch. Your using a heavy powder charge to stress the patch to the max. You can always choose your hunting load later.
Not saying not to use a conical, just saying don't give up. That ball will do a fine job of killing your elk and without the recoil that a .54 conical will plant on you. :shocked2:
The original quote may have been mine though it was in reference to the early Zouave barrels of the 60's that were .003" deep with only three lands and three grooves, designed for the original style Minie ball. Multi grooved rifling at least .005" deep shouldn't give the same results. Original Hawken rifles were 1-48" twist and .007' to .010" deep and no one can argue with their results.
Back in the 70's I drank the koolaide about PRB in the TC guns.went to MaxiBall and MaxiHunters with a good bit of punishment to me :cursing: Now move forward to present day with a larger knowledge base about all shooting in general.Guess what those guns that wouldn't shoot PRB do so very well now.Bottemline try several loads,ball size ETC and if you want to use PRB the load is out there.Probably will be around 80-90gr pwd patch thickness is an unknown,don't forget a felt/leather patch over powder can help too in PRB loads.Good luck :hatsoff:
Although the rifling is not the same depth, the rate of twist in my Lyman Trade Rifle barrel is the same and I get excellent accuracy using 85 grains of 2f Goex and a .018 mattress ticking lubed with olive oil and beeswax. I would suggest that you let the rifle tell you what it likes, starting with 75 grains of powder and a .015-.018 lubed patch. Increase by 5 grains after 3-5 shots at the same place on the target, swabbing with a dampened cleaning patch in between shots, not to exceed the maximum powder charge. My .54 likes 2f but yours may do best with 3f. A .54 round ball is plenty good deer and elk medicine if you put it in the right spot.
If you just can't get a PRB combination to work, try the Lee REAL bullet with a lubed fiber wad on top on the powder charge.
If you just can't get a PRB combination to work, try the Lee REAL bullet with a lubed fiber wad on top on the powder charge.
Guest
ok you got to remember the conicals are about twice as heavy as the round ball.
You didn't say what the powder load was, I don't think.
Staying within the max limits. try upping the grain 10 more grains for a little more oomph.
If no better, but you are good left to right, you need to shave some metal off the top of front sight.
By doing this you will need to raise the muzzle up to regain site picture.
normally a 1 in 48 is a good happy middle of the road for both, RB and Conicals, but not all like it.
I forgot to add. Toy need to use a good lube in the grease grooves.
And I keep a small squeeze bottle of rubbing alcohol. Make sure no sparks are left in the barrel. Swab a couple times with alcohol as needed.
It dries much quicker than water for further shots.
You didn't say what the powder load was, I don't think.
Staying within the max limits. try upping the grain 10 more grains for a little more oomph.
If no better, but you are good left to right, you need to shave some metal off the top of front sight.
By doing this you will need to raise the muzzle up to regain site picture.
normally a 1 in 48 is a good happy middle of the road for both, RB and Conicals, but not all like it.
I forgot to add. Toy need to use a good lube in the grease grooves.
And I keep a small squeeze bottle of rubbing alcohol. Make sure no sparks are left in the barrel. Swab a couple times with alcohol as needed.
It dries much quicker than water for further shots.
cowpoke1955
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2006
- Messages
- 2,090
- Reaction score
- 6
My .54 T/C Hawkens It had very shallow grooves and hard to drive a ball, patched with pillow ticking, down the barrel. I casted some .54 T/C Maxi Balls (400 grains) and .54 Lee REAL (380 grains). Both shot with excellent accuracy. Both would work well on elk.
I have a 54 T/C and as much as it pains me to say it Pyrodex shoots better than Black Powder. It shoots very well with 530's and .018 patches and 65 or 70 grains of Pyrodex Rifle. I have given it to a good friend on perminate loan. He gets good 50 yard groups with 120 grains of 2F. I guess I did not load heavy enough. Geo. T.
Do any of these lead bullets leave any lead behind in the rifling? I had a problem with my .44 magnum handgun years ago because I was shooting some lead bullets over 800 fps in my pistol. Just wondering if that could be a problem. Thanks
Several people have mentioned the maxiball now. I may have to give that a try. My buddy keeps telling me to try the powerbelt 300 or 350 copper coated hollowpoints but I don't even know it the rifling of my muzzleloader will engage the bullet. Just wondering if that bullet is worth trying out. Thanks for your help.
