T/C 54 peoblems

[bigted]

hello all. i have posted on another place my problems with my 54 thomson kit gun. ill ask the same here as i feel that i should be able to make er shoot and it bugs me that it has defeated me thus far.

here is what ive tryed...530 and 535 balls with 10 th patches all the way up to 20 th thickness combo's . tryed diff powders in 2 f as well as 3 f along with aftermarket powders in 50 thru 120 gr charges.

long bullets of thomsons in 430 gr as well as 450 gr lubed with thomsons lube. powders the same as the rb's and the grainage the same as well. the heavy charges blew the hammer back to full cock tho.

best accuracy with each was none from the rb's ...i mean none! wouldnt even keep em on a large box at 25 yds. the long bullets gave me groups of 8 inch at the 50 step mark. not even close to my expectations.

this was around 20 years ago and i recently got the bug again to try to witch out the problems. i could just send her back to thomson but what fun is that. if i cant get it to shoot this time, i will take it to a spot and have it gouged out to 58 cal with a 70 or so twist and have a go with that.

thanks for the buckets of advise ill get and know ill read every one and prolly try them all if i havnt been there before.

 

[ebiggs1]

Drop down and read the thread "TC Hawken". It has a lot of suggestions some of which may help. I have just finished a new 54 TC Hawken flintlock and am going to start sighting it in.

 

[necchi]

I'll betchya,,
,,the barrel never got cleaned of it's packing grease well enough. It's not an easy task, to get a white patch out white with a new barrel when the gent is eager to shoot.
If ANY is left in there it turns to a baked on crud that fouls the rifling.
Not sure if T/C honors kit gun barrels,,Does the serial # start with a "K"?

 

[jethro224]

Right off the top of my head I'd say try a new nipple first. They're cheap and I've heard of a burned out nipple causing loss of accuracy. If your rifle is blowing the hammer back with heavy charges, you might just need a new nipple.

 

[PreglerD]

Hello from Germany!

I have a .54 T/C Hawken too. And it shoots great with PRB, don't use anything else. My ROT is 1 in 48". Check out your ROT and the inside of the barrel, especially the rifling. Perhaps you have a fast twist barrel that won't shoot PRB very well with high loads and even not with low loads.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[bigted]

serial number is just " 487848 ". i scrubbed and scrubbed the barrel before shooting the first time. if it has any offending cake inside...how do i get it off?

it came blued already and the stock was inletted 100 % . all i had to do really was finish forming the outside contour's and final finish the stock.

cant remember if i ever used another nipple except the one that came with the kit...good idea to try.

i have contemplated bedding the barrel but the wedge pin does not fit so tight that it would put the barrel in a bind for the heating from shooting [ if this is possible with a m/l].

i have also contemplated maybe the crown is uneven and maybe i should take it to a smith to have it checked out and re-crowned.

i just cant believe that there is not a fixable something with this barrel. ive shot other m/l ers and never had nor heard of this problem. this is not the first kit i put together either. two cva's before and im working on a GPR as we speak. i just cant let this rifle alone and im too stuborn to shuffle it off on someone else. :idunno:

 

[bigted]

jethro,

you look very familiar. have you ever spent time in oregon? i worked with a fella there that could be your brother if that is your picture he enjoyed camping in his teepee and bowhunting[ dang stick throwers] lol.

 

[Swampman]

I've owned a few .54 Caliber Renegades that were the same way. A .530 ball properly patched and 60 grains of 3F Goex should shoot. The patched ball should be fairly snug but not really tough to push down.

Mark

 

[mr.flintlock]

The first thing I do if I'm not getting the accuracy that I expect is check the sights. On several occasions I have found that either the front or rear have worked their way lose and are moving under recoil. On T.C rifles the rear is installed with screws. Check to see if the screws are in place and tight. Your front sight is dovetailed in. Check it for tightness.You should not be able to move it with your fingers.

The next thing I would check is the spent patches. If they are burned through or torn up this could be your problem. A spent patch should still have it's original shape with a brown spot in the center with no burn through or streaks down the sides. A spent patch should look like you could use it again.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Ted

Had a similar problem with a 20+ year old TC. Then I discovered the rear sight arm has some play in it between the protecting wings! It can move back and forth a smidgen.

I had to put some epoxy in the slot and grease up the sight arm and set it in to nestle it down. Once the epoxy firmed up, I raised the arm and let it dry the rest of the way.

After that, there was no side to side play.

It really made a difference.

Dan

 

[jethro224]

jethro,

you look very familiar. have you ever spent time in oregon? i worked with a fella there that could be your brother if that is your picture he enjoyed camping in his teepee and bowhunting[ dang stick throwers] lol.

'Twern't me Ted. I ain't never been to Oregon. And I ain't got no brothers, brother. He musta been a darn good lookin' feller tho. :grin:

 

[Rat Trapper]

Here is some things you may want to try:

1. check the sights for play
2. clean the barrel again with a brush may still be bunch of lead in there from the maxi balls
3. install a hot shot nipple
4. try Hornady great plains bullets (390 grain) with a felt wad under bullet. in my guns they have always shot better than the maxi-ball/maxi-hunter.
5. weight your powder charges on a scale
6. different lubes with patched round ball can make a difference as can different patches.
7. Try heavier powder charges working up to the max and see what that does.
8. Having a good gun smith that has a lathe cut a new crown won't hurt a thing and might help you a lot.

 

[cowpoke1955]

My .54 T/C Hawkens has a very tight bore. I use pillow ticking patches, which mics at .018, in all my other rifles. These patches are too tight with .530 balls in my T/C. I just got some .010 patches I'm going to try after turkey season. I get about 1" groups at 50 yards with 380 grain Lee REAL bullets and 400 grain T/C Maxi Balls that I cast with 90 grains of FFg Goex. I'd also suggest replacing that nipple with a Hot Shot or Spitfire. That's the first thing I did when I received my T/C used. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[bigted]

success i think.

i dont know where i read it but someone suggested that maybe i had lead deposites inside. never contemplated this as i didnt recon bp rifles would ever lead the bore.

i used a modern bore cleaner that attacks brass and lead. let it set inside for 3/4 hour then briskly brushed the bore repeatedly usung more brass and lead remover. after i scrubbed for around 1/2 hour...after my arm got too tired to lift... i washed in HOT HOT water with dawn dishwashing soap. more scrubbing then rinse in HOT water with swabbing till no soap bubbles were evident. took hot barrel outside and poured oil thru the nipple hole till it pooled at the muzzel. then sprayed oil all over barrel till i could barely hold onto it. let this sit for time it took to cool down.

today i took it out for a shoot for the first time in years. wow what a diff. loaded 40 gr pyrodex select ff-g. with a 430 dia ball. patched with a 15 th bore butter soaked patch. sparked with an ol cci no 11. bingo...couldnt believe the rocks i could hit with it so i took to experimenting with diff powder charges. this rifle hit all targets out to 135 yds with all charges up to 70 gr. got chilly after that so came home. i shot 5 shots each of the diff charges of 40,,50,,60,,70 gr loads. never had her shoot this good.

i recall that when i sparked this gun the first time,,trying to get ready for an elk hunt,,i used the 430 gr hunter from t/c and i charged it with 120 gr ff g black powder. i recon i cooked lead into the barrel the first shots i fired with this gun. then the battle comenced with no accuracy with anything since. guess im never too ol ta learn huh?

im thrilled with her now and cant wait to put her on paper with the charges i have shot and mentioned. guess what gents....no more long bullets.....ever!!! r/b"s forever for me and whoever mentioned scrubbing the barrel with lead remover is blessed in my book...thanks

Ted

 

[Pete44ru]

I'm glad you resolved that rifle's problem - It's GREAT, when a plan comes together ! :applause:

.

 

[PreglerD]

Nice to hear that your smokepole now shoots accurate by the help of forum members.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[mpriester]

i had one of those 20 yrs ago with a very similar problem.all i ever tried was roundballs and no matter what i did it wouldn't shoot.i couldn,t even hit a sheet of paper at 25 yds. i ended up changing it to a green mountain. at that time a green mountain drop in was $90.00 and it was worth every penny. sometimes you get a barrel that just won't shoot.

 

[bigted]

thought i had a bad barrel as well but when i say i scrubbed the bore...i really gave it heck. ive never brushed a barrel this much in my life. i literally pushed and pulled for at least 45 min using copper and lead remover. now im just thinking that the problem was lead,,,could have been crud that i never got out when the barrel was new but at any rate...she is a shooter now.

thanks to all who have given me their ideas and suggestions. great to have friends here to depend on for their 2 cents worth...good words all!!!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Thre is nothing wrong with shooting lead bullets in these barrels, PROVIDED that you understand that you have to Clean the barrel differently than when you shoot a PRB! :shocked2:

This is a common mistake, or failure to appreciate what is actually going on inside the barrel when you fire both projectiles. The other thing we see, particularly with T/C barrels, are people claiming that they have "shot out " the barrel, and it no longer is accurate. Often, they claim the only thing they have shot is PRBs, and the MAJOR clue is that they finally admit they have been following the advice in the early factory booklet to " season" their barrel.

What we find, time and again, is baked on Bore Butter residue that finally fills the grooves to a point where the grooves are NO longer VISIBLE! Once we get the shooter to clean out the gunk, using soap, water, and bore brushes, the barrel goes back to looking Like New, and shooting just fine.

You "Season" cast iron skillets, NOT STEEL. Just because someone knows how to make fine rifles, doesn't mean they know anything about shooting them! And, we have a lot of fine shooters who don't know much about cleaning and maintenance of their guns, either! :shocked2:

Years ago, I was talking to my gunsmith after he opened a shop at a new location. I wanted to help him get more business, and suggested that we pick a date in the Early Fall to advertise to shooters to bring their guns in to be cleaned, and oiled prior to hunting season. He Got Indignant! He told me that 80% of the gunsmithing work, and more than half the sales of used guns on his rack were directly the result of shooters not cleaning their guns, and not oiling them.Eventually, parts began to fail, and break, and the gun showed up at his shop. He didn't want me Killing his business by cleaning these customer's guns!

So, first of all, don't feel alone. Second, I am so very happy that you figured out how important cleaning a bore thoroughly is to keeping the gun shooting accurately. Third, and most important, is that you now have an OLD FRIEND that shoots just fine! Congratulations! And you did it yourself! :hmm: :thumbsup: :bow: :hatsoff:

 

[buttonbuck]

besides elbow grease brushes soap and water what is the best product for removing lead?