T/C charge pocket question.

[reddhawk]

I'm looking down, inside my T/C .50 black powder muzzle loading rifle and there appears to be a protruding ring just above the bottom of the barrel. I can feel it with my cleaning rod, too.
Question: Is this ring to prevent pushing the round ball down further onto the charge? It would allow the charge to remain below this constriction where the ball is resting on.
Is this a charge pocket?
Thank you.

 

[smo]

It could be where the breech plug meets the barrel,
Is It possible that the gun was left loaded for awhile?

If so it my be a rust ring formed where the plug meets the back end of the barrel .

The TC have a patten breech system that my be what your seeing as well, it’s a small chamber at the end of the barrel.

I’ve never heard of a charge pocket ?

 

[russellshaffer]

Your TC breech probably looks a lot like these.

 

[smo]

Thanks Russell, I have a pic of one i installed but can't locate it...

 

[Le Loup]

I'm looking down, inside my T/C .50 black powder muzzle loading rifle and there appears to be a protruding ring just above the bottom of the barrel. I can feel it with my cleaning rod, too.
Question: Is this ring to prevent pushing the round ball down further onto the charge? It would allow the charge to remain below this constriction where the ball is resting on.
Is this a charge pocket?
Thank you.

I have never heard of such a thing Red Hawk. The ball MUST be seated on the powder charge, to leave a gap will likely bulge or split the barrel. I recommend you remove the breach plug just to make sure it is what you think it is, & if so, take it to a gunsmith for his valuation & recommendation.
Keith.

 

[Stumpkiller]

No. T/C did use the patent breech (Nock Patent). Probably mostly to force owners to buy their special stepped cleaning jag.

 

[smo]

I’ve never owned one of those, do they work? LOL

I have used a small brass brush , but mostly just soak & flush pumping your choice of cleaning liquids thru the bore and in and out the nipple hole.

I can’t recall ever using the clean out screw on the snail either.

 

[Don Steele]

Tell us a little more about the rifle. Factory new, or new to you..??
On a BP rifle...there's no "protruding ring" intended to keep the ball off the powder. As pointed out...that's a recipe for disaster. If the rifle has been fired there are all kinds of reasons a "crud ring" could be formed in the area you describe. If that's the case...it should be removed before continuing use of the rifle.

 

[BrownBear]

If the rifle has been fired there are all kinds of reasons a "crud ring" could be formed in the area you describe. If that's the case...it should be removed before continuing use of the rifle.

That was my immediate reaction.

 

[Stony Broke]

I've seen a "crud ring" many times in barrels. After shooting some rifles a bunch of times in a row, the ring will form like that and you can normally get it out by just using a tight, wet, patch and working on it a little. Another possible is a ring of rust that has formed there. Some guys will load with a spit patch and leave it sitting down there for some time..possibly days and rust can form in that area from the moisture. You can sometimes get it partially removed...except any pits...by using a brush with some steel wool wrapped on it. Just make sure you have a good threaded portion on your rod as you wouldn't want to have the brush come off down near the bottom of he barrel.

 

[williams6]

I agree with reddhawk, my TC Renegade 50 cal, my dad purchased as a kit in 1988, has the same pocket/ breech. I was wondering the same thing, does the ball/conical seat down on the powder charge or is there a gap?

 

[nhmoose]

The paten/breech does not hold the full powder charge. the ball or bullet still contacts the powder. The amount of powder in the breech, if it is not in contact with the ball, is not enough to hurt anything.

If it was many here will blow their guns up putting powder under the nipple to blow a dry ball out.

 

[Rifleman1776]

a "crud ring" could be formed in the area you describe.

Very possible. The narrow (Nock style) breech could be another source of your situation. At the end of a shooting session, I suggest you use something like Brillo and scrub the dickens out of that area. If you have a crud ring, good to get rid of it. Make that part of your regular cleaning procedure from here on. Don't use a brush, that can lead to problems.

 

[Dr5x]

At certain times depending upon the humidity a ring made up of Black Powder esidue will for in the barrel about where the ball will be when the rifle is normally loaded. .Thisis usually broken free when loading and exerting pressure on the ram rod to ensure the ball is properly seated on the powder. I used to apply bout half my weight on the steel rod and every so often there would be a "kerchunk" sound as that hard ring was broken free..

That's one of the god reasons for applying that weight.

Dutch Schoultz

No. T/C did use the patent breech (Nock Patent). Probably mostly to force owners to buy their special stepped cleaning jag.

 

[reddhawk]

What happened was I'd left a patched lead ball in the barrel without a charge. I used a screw puller and co2 blowout but no solid ball came out just bits and pieces. I cleaned and scrubbed the mess out of it and noticed that shallow, smooth, rounded ridge just forward of the end of the barrel where the ball would've been seated.
I was concerned it was some kind of a rust ring or lead residue, as mentioned above.
Thank you for the T/C diagrams, by the way.

After seeing all posts, I'm going to have to remove the breech plug and inspect the barrel and chamber to insure this ring (or whatever) won't prevent the seated lead ball from contacting the powder charge.

I will follow-up with results from a more thorough, internal inspection after pulling the breech plug.

Many thanks to all for your concern and expertise.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I'm looking down, inside my T/C .50 black powder muzzle loading rifle and there appears to be a protruding ring just above the bottom of the barrel. I can feel it with my cleaning rod, too.
Question: Is this ring to prevent pushing the round ball down further onto the charge? It would allow the charge to remain below this constriction where the ball is resting on.
Is this a charge pocket?
Thank you.

Look something like this????

That's the end of the breech plug. Dark hole to the side is the fire channel.

 

[Griz44Mag]

What happened was I'd left a patched lead ball in the barrel without a charge. I used a screw puller and co2 blowout but no solid ball came out just bits and pieces. I cleaned and scrubbed the mess out of it and noticed that shallow, smooth, rounded ridge just forward of the end of the barrel where the ball would've been seated.
I was concerned it was some kind of a rust ring or lead residue, as mentioned above.
Thank you for the T/C diagrams, by the way.

After seeing all posts, I'm going to have to remove the breech plug and inspect the barrel and chamber to insure this ring (or whatever) won't prevent the seated lead ball from contacting the powder charge.

I will follow-up with results from a more thorough, internal inspection after pulling the breech plug.

Many thanks to all for your concern and expertise.

Removing that breech plug is not only difficult, it's a BAD idea.
Get a 10 dollar bore camera off Amazon and just look down the barrel like my picture shows.

 

[Zonie]

For those who are "Pickers of Fly Feces From The Pepper" like I am, the Thompson Center rifles do not have a true Nock's Patent Breech. They have a Chambered Breech.

Nock was very protective of his Patented breech design so Manton came up with a Chambered Breech which uses a smaller powder chamber in line with the bore of the gun. Manton did not Patent his breech design.

Notice in the Nock Patented breech, the small chambers that hold the starting powder are running cross-ways to the bore rather than being in line with it. Those small chambers were the essence of the design.

Below is my sketches that show the Manton breech.

TC's version has a smaller flame channel hole that connects the Chambered breech with the nipple or the flintlock vent but the basic idea is the same.

OK. I'll put the pepper back into the pepper shaker now.

 

[williams6]

That’s what mine looks like. Griz44Mag
All I have to say is I shot mine today and it’s ready to rock.
Shot patch/ball at 100 yds from a dead sled BULLSEYE.
Shot Great Plains bullet at 100 yds 5” low.
I’ll take that.
Thanks for all the threads out there, I love MAP.

 

[reddhawk]

Look something like this????
View attachment 2158
That's the end of the breech plug. Dark hole to the side is the fire channel.

Yes!
Wow, that is a closeup of what it looks like.
Thank you,