T/C charge pocket question.

[SDSmlf]

Photos of a TC breech plug pulled from a barrel in sewer pipe condition. Interesting that breech area was fairly clean. Do not suggest removing one just to ‘take a look’.

 

[reddhawk]

View attachment 2192 View attachment 2193 Photos of a TC breech plug pulled from a barrel in sewer pipe condition. Interesting that breech area was fairly clean. Do not suggest removing one just to ‘take a look’.

No need to remove breech plug now that I'm confident my T/C is not all fowled up.
Great photos!. Much appreciated.

 

[nhmoose]

Why not remove. TC supplied breech plug wrenches for you to buy so you could remove the breech.

 

[smo]

That’s the story of my Life,
Always a day late & a dollar short! LOL

I knew I had a pic somewhere among the KKKK’s of pics.

I’m glad there’s no issue, Enjoy your rifle!

 

[necchi]

Why not remove. TC supplied breech plug wrenches for you to buy so you could remove the breech.

Because most guy's don't have that wrench or a decently mounted bench vice with padded jaws to do the other part of the job needed when using said TC supplied wrench.
TC only had those wrenches available for a few years,, then they too figured out that most guy's aren't gunsmiths or advanced hobbyists.
I guess it's just something we don't passively recommend folks should do without absolute need.
Figuring out what a plug face is on the bottom of the barrel isn't a dire need plug removal issue.
That, and the current/common thing with removing all in-line breech plugs for cleaning, it's hard for new folks to understand or do the job of traditional rifle beech plug seating.
I'm really glad folks showed up with photo's,, it's a hard one to explain with words.
After all these years I can't count how many barrel/breech areas I've seen butchered with pipe-wrench marks,

 

[SDSmlf]

Why not remove. TC supplied breech plug wrenches for you to buy so you could remove the breech.

Curious how you held the barrel and used the TC breech plug wrench?

Had one for the one inch barrel. Destroyed it attempting to remove a breech plug that was also damaged. Had access to a tool room at the time and made a special collet to hold the barrel in a lathe and a profiled wrench for breech plug out of hardened S7. With heat and a three foot cheater bar you could remove the breech plug with minimal damage. Got the feeling TC didn’t ‘fit’ the breech plug in the traditional way, seemed like they torqued it into place crushing metal until the flats lined up. TC plugs weren’t meant for removal by the amateur gunsmith in my opinion.

 

[nhmoose]

Bench vise, protected jaws. I have removed many as a gunshop owner with a manufactures license for unmentionables. Their wrench worked great. Would I recommended it for the average today ML NO. Most hardly are able to disassemble to clean them let alone actually work on them.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Bench vise, protected jaws. I have removed many as a gunshop owner with a manufactures license for unmentionables. Their wrench worked great. Would I recommended it for the average today ML NO. Most hardly are able to disassemble to clean them let alone actually work on them.

You are a paradox.... First you comment that it's OK for the average shooter to remove the breech plug, then you state you DO NOT recommend it for the average ML shooter. You had/have a gunshop with the proper tools. So which way are you pointing????

 

[SDSmlf]

Bench vise, protected jaws. I have removed many as a gunshop owner with a manufactures license for unmentionables. Their wrench worked great. Would I recommended it for the average today ML NO. Most hardly are able to disassemble to clean them let alone actually work on them.

The one I had broke at the corner (cracked and opened up) after being used ten times or so (personally only removed three plugs with it). When using a vice to hold the barrel had better luck using one like you would find on a milling machine. Curious how Bobby Hoyt pulls plugs when he rebores a TC barrel. Have seen a few of his rebores with the barrel scuffed up bit, and doubt outside of the TC factory techs, anybody has removed more. Damage I saw was nothing major, but required a bit of work and rebluing to look pretty.

 

[nhmoose]

I owned a barrel supply company. Made many adjustments to ML breeches. A protected jaw may have been in a 10 ton hydraulic barrel vise. I never used my milling machines vices for that why damage equipment not made for it.

Hoyt is not the only one who uses standard practices. We also had way better tools than supplied by TC. Theirs would work but ours were industrial not what the hobbyist would have.

 

[SDSmlf]

I owned a barrel supply company. Made many adjustments to ML breeches. A protected jaw may have been in a 10 ton hydraulic barrel vise. I never used my milling machines vices for that why damage equipment not made for it.

Hoyt is not the only one who uses standard practices. We also had way better tools than supplied by TC. Theirs would work but ours were industrial not what the hobbyist would have.

Ok, misunderstood. Thought you were using a bench vice.

 

[nhmoose]

I never stated the average use could remove a plug. I answered the statement that one should never be removed and then stated why did TC supply one for the average shooter to remove one. what paradox huh?

Lawyers made it so the average shooter could not remove one for the sole purpose of protecting the barrel maker. Litigious action has changed the whole sport.

And again todays average shooter has NO real world experience to remove one. Sorry to say but read the board and see what to an experienced machinist is a stupid question and you will see who has skills or not to work on it.

Nope I am not PC but very practical. Thirty years ago common sense ruled who could use a breech plug wrench and who could not. That is no more just look at the ones on you tube doing stuff that will get someone maimed.

 

[necchi]

I hear ya nhmoose, I get it,
Thanks for sharing,

 

[SDSmlf]

My original suggestion/response was that I do ‘not suggest removing one just to ‘take a look’’, based on personal experience.

 

[smo]

Great discussion Guys.

Why couldn't a barrel be re- bored with out removing the breech plug?

The last inch of so will be filled with powder anyway....

Couldn't you just bore down too within an inch or so of the bottom , and stop?

I've never removed a breech plug, I have installed one.

To do the job without causing any damage too the plug or the barrel can be
a challenge.

 

[reddhawk]

FYI:

Plan drawing, full exact size, Nock's patent breech:

"No. T/C did use the patent breech (Nock Patent). Probably mostly to force owners to buy their special stepped cleaning jag."

Henry Nock was granted a patent in April, 1757, for his clever "false breech", which improved ignition and increased velocity in flint guns. Similar to a modern Diesel "pre-ignition chamber", later percussion breeches were modeled after his design. We offer this patent drawing reprint, which shows his powder chamber and flash hole liner installation technique, inside and out.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/327/1/PLAN-NOCK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Nock

Most excellent discussion and info.

 

[SDSmlf]

Great discussion Guys.

Why couldn't a barrel be re- bored with out removing the breech plug?

The last inch of so will be filled with powder anyway....

Couldn't you just bore down too within an inch or so of the bottom , and stop?

I've never removed a breech plug, I have installed one.

To do the job without causing any damage too the plug or the barrel can be
a challenge.

Wouldn’t want to bore/rifle in a blind hole.

 

[Zonie]

Great discussion Guys.

Why couldn't a barrel be re- bored with out removing the breech plug?

The last inch of so will be filled with powder anyway....

Couldn't you just bore down too within an inch or so of the bottom , and stop?

I've never removed a breech plug, I have installed one.

To do the job without causing any damage too the plug or the barrel can be
a challenge.

Yes. A barrel can be bored even though there is a breech plug in it. In fact, a modern gun drill does exactly that because it bores the entire hole into a solid bar. (Its design allows pumping fluid thru it to the tip to cool the cutting edges and wash away the chips as they are created.)

While that is OK for a smoothbore, a rifling machine needs to have both ends of the bore open to allow the cutter/button to do its thing. In other words, a blind hole cannot be rifled if it is very deep.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Bench vise, protected jaws. I have removed many as a gunshop owner with a manufactures license for unmentionables.
A protected jaw may have been in a 10 ton hydraulic barrel vise.

I have removed many as a gunshop owner
I owned a barrel supply company.

Why not remove. TC supplied breech plug wrenches for you to buy so you could remove the breech.
I never stated the average use could remove a plug.

Maybe you should keep notes so you can remember what you said....

 

[Idaholewis]

I cut up an Old TC Renegade .50 Cal Barrel/Breech plug that had a Sewer pipe of a Bore for educational purposes awhile back. This shows the Patented Breech and Fire Channel up close and personal, As you can see TC made a Scraper tool for their Patented Breech, With proper cleaning it is not needed though, This one had the Clean out screw on the side as you can see