Taking a flintlock i to the RSA

[2Moons]

Probably to kill really big and mean things. That is more recoil than I d like to do but probably not as bad as being stomped by big and mean.

If I had to take that kind of abuse to hunt something, I’d be loo At a different type of firearm!

 

[longcruise]

If I had to take that kind of abuse to hunt something, I’d be loo At a different type of firearm!

If you should select one of the big suppository guns that are designed to terminate big and mean you would be looking at similar recoil. When I load my 45-70 to hot with heavy bullets it gets to be similar to what you saw in the video. And thats a little guy in the big and mean game.

 

[Eterry]

If you should select one of the big suppository guns that are designed to terminate big and mean you would be looking at similar recoil. When I load my 45-70 to hot with heavy bullets it gets to be similar to what you saw in the video. And thats a little guy in the big and mean game.

Indeed... my 416 produces 70lbs of felt recoil.

 

[Eterry]

One more thing. @everyone; differing opinions are ok, but don't get Personal.

 

[SDSmlf]

I have a .69 caliber October country sporting rifle. I load it with 225 grains of FF. I have killed several deer and a truck load of hogs with it. I would hunt with it more but it is awful heavy to carry around.

The outfit I used in Namibia was pretty insistent that if I were to use a traditional muzzleloader, 58 caliber roundball or 54 caliber conicals, both cast from hard lead, were the minimum for smaller plains game, while 58 conicals, with a lot of powder behind them, were the minimum for the bigger more challenging game in their opinion. An interesting point that the North American ‘shoot them behind shoulder’ crowd may not understand is that you need to put whatever kind of bullet you are using between the shoulders of most African game, as the important stuff is forward of where you find it in North American game, as it is tucked between the shoulders (that means you need to aggressively shoot through at least one shoulder, no matter how large or tough the critter). A behind the shoulder shot becomes a gut shot, and that leads to a lot of stressful hunting after the shot as opposed to more relaxed hunting experience before the shot.

A big heavy slow projectile beats the faster and lighter projectile on heavy African game. That means leave your 45 caliber roundball guns loaded with 60 grains of powder home.

 

[fleener]

Perhaps this will help a little.

Fleener

 

[Eterry]

The outfit I used in Namibia was pretty insistent that if I were to use a traditional muzzleloader, 58 caliber roundball or 54 caliber conicals, both cast from hard lead, were the minimum for smaller plains game, while 58 conicals, with a lot of powder behind them, were the minimum for the bigger more challenging game in their opinion. An interesting point that the North American ‘shoot them behind shoulder’ crowd may not understand is that you need to put whatever kind of bullet you are using between the shoulders of most African game, as the important stuff is forward of where you find it in North American game, as it is tucked between the shoulders (that means you need to aggressively shoot through at least one shoulder, no matter how large or tough the critter). A behind the shoulder shot becomes a gut shot, and that leads to a lot of stressful hunting after the shot as opposed to more relaxed hunting experience before the shot.

A big heavy slow projectile beats the faster and lighter projectile on heavy African game. That means leave your 45 caliber roundball guns loaded with 60 grains of powder home.

Craig Boddington has taken over 50 Buffalo. He prefers the shoulder shot, as it takes out the heart and/or aorta. But when the shoulder is obscured he recommends the lung shot. I think this would be preferable with a muzzleloader.

The Lyman Black Powder Handbook tells about Val Forgett hunting plains and Dangerous Game with muzzle-loaders.
He used a 58 with a 610gr minie and a first full (200grs fffg) of powder for the big nasties. He took a Zebra, Sable and other game with his Reduced load of 180grs fffg.
It's a good read.

 

[SDSmlf]

Craig Boddington has taken over 50 Buffalo. He prefers the shoulder shot, as it takes out the heart and/or aorta. But when the shoulder is obscured he recommends the lung shot.

The Lyman Black Powder Handbook tells about Val Forgett hunting plains and Dangerous Game with muzzle-loaders.
He used a 58 with a 610gr minie and a first full (200grs fffg) of powder for the big nasties. He took a Zebra, Sable and other game with his Reduced load of 180grs fffg.
It's a good read.

Yep. Actually have two copies of the Lyman Black Powder Handbook in case I lose one (I gave a few away back in the day), plus another Lyman book that the exact title escapes me that the moment with a very similar article about the adventure that escapes me at the moment. Unfortunately, it seems these pre-internet things called books hold little value today.

 

[SDSmlf]

Perhaps this will help a little.

Fleener

Thank you. This is one of the documents that I previously had but could not find when responding to @brazosland after he called me a smart ass and an idiot (believe his post was subsequently deleted, and guess this post may also get the deep six). I have a screen shot of his post, but promise I will not re-post it. The only reason I engaged him and argued was that I hate when posted bogus information could get someone in deep doo-doo if they followed the advice.

Bottom line, no matter the best advice from internet experts, is don’t travel by air with blackpowder, no matter how it is packed. Contact the appropriate federal agencies if one has questions.

 

[Buff1958]

@fleener What say you about all the above regarding transportation of BP.

it was only on there long enough to take the picture…… and I was nervous

 

[Buff1958]

i have killed a Cape Buffalo in Africa and 5 Australia water buffalo with a 85 pound recurve. The deal with big critters is getting through the ribs. Bust through them and they are just a wal mart bag full of shaving cream until you hit the ribs on the other side.


Elephant with a bow, you have to go between the ribs but at least you can see them

 

[Eterry]

Imho, it's not the TSA you need to worry about, but what happens in South Africa when the Game Ranger, or anyone else gets wind you transported black powder to their country.

I don't know how your could arrive with a muzzleloader and magically have black powder to use in it. Someone would definitely catch on. Have you seen the recent articles about folks illegally carrying ammo to foreign countries? The penalties are stiff.

And your can't take ammo without a gun to match it. So you're taking 2 rifles, and only using one. That's a pain to me.

My outfitter says they stopped doing muzzleloader hunts for those reasons.

 

[SDSmlf]

Imho, it's not the TSA you need to worry about, but what happens in South Africa when the Game Ranger, or anyone else gets wind you transported black powder to their country.

I don't know how your could arrive with a muzzleloader and magically have black powder to use in it. Someone would definitely catch on. Have you seen the recent articles about folks illegally carrying ammo to foreign countries? The penalties are stiff.

And your can't take ammo without a gun to match it. So you're taking 2 rifles, and only using one. That's a pain to me…..

…..My outfitter says they stopped doing muzzleloader hunts for those reasons.

There definitely are some ‘built in’ challenges as a North American visitor when hunting with a traditional flintlock muzzleloader on the Dark Continent. In addition to the at times classification of real blackpowder as unobtainium, I was informed of minimum energy or footpound requirements for Namibia hunting (although I have been there, I did not hunt in RSA, and do not know their regulations) by my outfitter and a number of folks at SCI shows. It seems to be legal you need to be at 2000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle minimum for most plains game (game the size of duiker or springbuck for example, only required1000 foot pounds). That meant I needed to launch a roundball out of my 62 caliber gun at about 1670 fps, requiring 110 to 115 grains of 3F Swiss, a bit hotter than I liked. If one desired to hunt buffalo, that 62 caliber roundball would need to leave the house at nearly 2400 fps to get to a 4k foot pound minimum. Did not seem to be a good idea, at least to me, nor did I attempt figuring out such a load, as most of the fun was gone before I reached 100 grains of powder and 1700 fps. I am guessing all the 45 caliber roundball hunters using 60 grains of powder that can kill anything on four legs can stay home, or maybe line up and argue. But remember, their country, their game animals, their rules.

In all honesty, hunting in Namibia was a great experience, even if I had to the use a 338 magnum instead of a flintlock after the promised real blackpowder didn’t materialize. If you have the opportunity, do it. I’m considering another trip, still have a few critters on my ticket I need to punch.

And while not relevant for this discussion, at least at the time I went, it was bottom line less money for an African plains game safari for multiple animals than a Rocky Mountain elk hunt, not to mention the cost of a Kodiak Island adventure.

 

[Bushfire]

M

i have killed a Cape Buffalo in Africa and 5 Australia water buffalo with a 85 pound recurve. The deal with big critters is getting through the ribs. Bust through them and they are just a wal mart bag full of shaving cream until you hit the ribs on the other side.


Elephant with a bow, you have to go between the ribs but at least you can see them

My friend and I have both killed water buff bulls with my 50 cal caplock here in Aus. Some animals are tougher than others but put a bullet where it needs to go and they all fall down.

 

[Eterry]

There definitely are some ‘built in’ challenges as a North American visitor when hunting with a traditional flintlock muzzleloader on the Dark Continent. In addition to the at times classification of real blackpowder as unobtainium, I was informed of minimum energy or footpound requirements for Namibia hunting (although I have been there, I did not hunt in RSA, and do not know their regulations) by my outfitter and a number of folks at SCI shows. It seems to be legal you need to be at 2000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle minimum for most plains game (game the size of duiker or springbuck for example, only required1000 foot pounds). That meant I needed to launch a roundball out of my 62 caliber gun at about 1670 fps, requiring 110 to 115 grains of 3F Swiss, a bit hotter than I liked. If one desired to hunt buffalo, that 62 caliber roundball would need to leave the house at nearly 2400 fps to get to a 4k foot pound minimum. Did not seem to be a good idea, at least to me, nor did I attempt figuring out such a load, as most of the fun was gone before I reached 100 grains of powder and 1700 fps. I am guessing all the 45 caliber roundball hunters using 60 grains of powder that can kill anything on four legs can stay home, or maybe line up and argue. But remember, their country, their game animals, their rules.

In all honesty, hunting in Namibia was a great experience, even if I had to the use a 338 magnum instead of a flintlock after the promised real blackpowder didn’t materialize. If you have the opportunity, do it. I’m considering another trip, still have a few critters on my ticket I need to punch.

And while not relevant for this discussion, at least at the time I went, it was bottom line less money for an African plains game safari for multiple animals than a Rocky Mountain elk hunt, not to mention the cost of a Kodiak Island adventure.

I took my cartridge rifle and gear to Customs today for my 4457 Form. The agent and I both agreed the real problem lies in once you're there and someone learns your using smuggled black powder. You may get your safari extended into years, and fighting more dangerous game than Buffalo.

 

[Eterry]

M

My friend and I have both killed water buff bulls with my 50 cal caplock here in Aus. Some animals are tougher than others but put a bullet where it needs to go and they all fall down.

Wally Johnson wrote about a teenager swatting a Cape Buffalo in the ear with a 22 Hornet, purely by accident. It fell like a stone. But definitely not recommended.

Most more recently, Craig Boddington wrote about killing a Cape Buffalo using his 338 for hanging bait, using a TSX. It too went down no problem. He thinks with modern ammo the 375 minimum is outdated.

 

[Bushfire]

Wally Johnson wrote about a teenager swatting a Cape Buffalo in the ear with a 22 Hornet, purely by accident. It fell like a stone. But definitely not recommended.

Most more recently, Craig Boddington wrote about killing a Cape Buffalo using his 338 for hanging bait, using a TSX. It too went down no problem. He thinks with modern ammo the 375 minimum is outdated.

Among other things Karamojo bell is famous for killing over 800 elephants with a 275 Rigby aka 7x57.

I’ve got a copy of one of his books and he goes into detail discussing the importance of learning anatomy and shot placement. He also mentions the large bore muzzleloaders that were used prior to modern cartridges and their efficacy.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

As for Canada, a more firearm unfriendly current govt you could not find. Do your homework.

 

[SDSmlf]

I took my cartridge rifle and gear to Customs today for my 4457 Form. The agent and I both agreed the real problem lies in once you're there and someone learns you’re using smuggled black powder. You may get your safari extended into years, and fighting more dangerous game than Buffalo.

I remember the outfit I was dealing with in Namibia providing documentation early on that stated I would be sourcing my blackpowder locally. This was before the local supplier ultimately failed to be able to supply actual blackpowder. My instructions were to have printed copies of that documentation and present it at customs when I picked up my flintlock. The best laid plans….

I also learned not to consider bringing a 308 (for those with sensitive eyes, don’t read the following, but it was too close to a 7.62x51mm NATO round and not a good alternative choice because of local customs). Also told to have clothes WITHOUT a camo print on them for traveling and any excursions into the city (Windhoek), too similar to military uniforms to be worn in public and would draw unwanted attention.

Personally, I’ve travelled to a lot of different unique locations, and the American’s distain and arrogance towards other countries and their laws and customs is always amusing, yet sad to observe. The ever popular ‘I know my rights’ as the handcuffs are about to click……

 

[Eterry]

I remember the outfit I was dealing with in Namibia providing documentation early on that stated I would be sourcing my blackpowder locally. This was before the local supplier ultimately failed to be able to supply actual blackpowder. My instructions were to have printed copies of that documentation and present it at customs when I picked up my flintlock. The best laid plans….

I also learned not to consider bringing a 308 (for those with sensitive eyes, don’t read the following, but it was too close to a 7.62x51mm NATO round and not a good alternative choice because of local customs). Also told to have clothes WITHOUT a camo print on them for traveling and any excursions into the city (Windhoek), too similar to military uniforms to be worn in public and would draw unwanted attention.

Personally, I’ve travelled to a lot of different unique locations, and the American’s distain and arrogance towards other countries and their laws and customs is always amusing, yet sad to observe. The ever popular ‘I know my rights’ as the handcuffs are about to click……

I've heard that very same mine many times myself.