Talk Me Out of Buying a Pedersoli 20 Gauge Shotgun

[IdahoMatt]

Oh, you don't want to buy one of those. You need to buy one.

 

[Rat]

That's a nice gun. I keep saying, thinking that some day I'll get one, or something like it, and sleeve the left barrel down to a rifle, and have a really cool combo-gun. However, my other rifles and muskets may never get used again, so I refrain.

I think the best solution to the empty space at the breech end would be to clean and dry the cavities very well, stand the barrels perfectly vertical on the muzzles, and pour in/fill up the cavities with a good bow-makers epoxy or JB weld. JB weld does not flow great, but if the breech was nice and warm is should settle good.

Having said that, your cleaning method, and using carb cleaner and WD40 should prevent any rust from forming.

On leaving barrels in the white, I did this with both my Brown Bess, 1861, and Jeager. Getting that gun-metal grey is very nice, but it takes a lot of time and patience. Takes a couple years at least, but worth it. Some barrels rust more easily than others. My Jeager's Colerain barrel does not seem to rust at all. I hunted off and on drizzling rain with it just recently...no rust, not even a tiny spot. It's like it's stainless or something...but it is turning slowly but surely. The Bess, just barely. I've never seen a spot of rust on my 1861 Springfield, and she's been out in heavy rain, but it has turned the nicest grey.

I have two Miroku rifles that will rust if you even sneeze within twenty feet of them.

With all three guns I avoid getting any oil on the barrels, (when cleaning I might wipe it down lightly with a dirty rag) and wipe my sweaty hands on them, and generally put my hands, preferably dirty, on them often, and rub them down with dirty or sweaty hands. !!!! It also seems to help, if when you clean the gun, and take out that first dirty, black, gooey patch, to rub the barrel down with it.

I try not to let them actually rust, and if I see that happening I will wipe them down with some oily solvent, gently, sparingly, then wipe dry.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Might be a nikel content in the barrel slow to rust!

 

[SDSmlf]

I took the shotgun out today to see if I could hit anything with it. To begin with; I stink at shooting clay pigeons. So today wasn't much better but I felt good at being able to hit a few out of dozen shots.

I had some miss-fires on the left barrel at first. So I rummaged around my black powder tool box and found a Hot-Shot nipple in 1/4-28. It fit perfectly. After that, no more miss-fires on the left barrel. More Hot-Shot nipples are on order from TOW.

Toward the end of our shooting session, I started experiencing miss-fires on the right barrel. So after the left barrel was shot, I removed the Hot-Shot nipple and put it on the right barrel. Problem solved.

I had also experienced the same miss-fires on the Howdah pistol. The breech is the same as the shot gun. I got 1/4-28 Hot shot nipples for the pistol and haven't had anymore problems.

Please keep in mind that I am reluctant to put the blame for the miss-fired rounds on the nipples. This same nipple is used on the Charles Moore percussion pistols that I have. There are not any problems with miss-fired rounds on those pistols.

So I suspect that there might be a too much of a constriction in the flash channel in the Howdah and the shotgun.

I would have got the Hot-Shot nipples for the Charlie Moore pistols but the cone would be too short and the result would be no ignition at all. The hammer doesn't make contact with the Hot-Shot nipple when it is set on it.

Back to the shotgun. I didn't try to pattern it but just started shooting hand thrown pigeons. So I won't attempt to say which method of loading powder, shot and wads worked best.

When I cleaned the barrels I noticed the same thing that I did with the Howdah. If you have one of these shotguns or pistols please take a look at this.

Look at the photo below. Notice how there are gaps above and below the joint between the barrels. This is a good place for water to collect and stay there if you clean by immersing the breech in a bucket then use the patched jag and ramrod to "pump" the solution through the barrel.

I dry everything on the exterior with a towel. Then blast every part of the gun I'm cleaning with an air compressor. That's not historically correct but who cares?

So these gaps get the air compressor treatment. Brake cleaner also does a good job of drying those gaps.

After the air compressor or brake cleaner treatment I push extra long pipe cleaners in the gaps to pick any left over moisture. That works for the Howdah with the extra long pipe cleaners but they don't go deep enough for the shotgun.

I put the muzzle down then drop either oil, or if you wish, WD-40 down those gaps. Then I let it sit in the corner on the muzzle for a few minutes.

After that, I put the breech down on a rag on the floor and let the oil run out.

View attachment 17545

The other problem that I ran into during the shooting session was that the wedge kept wanting to slide out during recoil.

When I reassembled the shotgun, I put a couple of pieces of Gorilla tape in the channel for the wedge staple on the barrel assembly. It was actually two pieces of tape doubled over.

When I pushed the wedge back in there was definitely more effort required to push. Once in position, I didn't feel any play. Let's hope it stays there. If it works, I may upgrade to either wood or metal shim stock.

View attachment 17546

Overall, I think I would give the shotgun 4 out of 5 stars. I didn't like the blemishes that came with a brand new shotgun. The miss-fires on both the Howdah and this firearm are too unacceptable but easy to fix with the Hot-Shot nipples from TOW. However, it could just as easily been fixed with magnum caps.

The aforementioned problems are easy to fix or otherwise live with.

For the fun factor, I give this shotgun 5 stars even if I could only hit 2 out of 12 clay birds. Give me a couple of decades and I might be able to double my record.

I think I will be taking a look at an automatic trap by Champion. These might be the thing I need cause my friends with their new-fangled shotguns may grow impatient with me loading my shotgun. This way, I can go shoot by myself.

My Pedersoli 12 gauge double is just over 40 years old and has a similar triangular gap between the barrels and the rib. Has never been an issue or something I took special care of.

Just because of your comments I ran a pipe cleaner into the opening and pulled out a clean pipe cleaner. Nothing to see here. And I clean in a container of warm to hot water.

Think about it. Drop the breech into water and water will only fill the gap if there is an opening at the other end. I just let the barrels sit breech down for a bit after removing from the water followed by WD40 in the bores and outer surfaces. Once everything else is cleaned I wipe the bores and outer surfaces, then let the barrels sit for 24 to 48 hours muzzle down (do not want anything to accumulate in the breech). I then follow up with longer term protectection and assemble. Briefly went through what I do just to highlight that I pay no special attention to the gap, and doubt others do either (chance for others to speak up if they do).

While you could plug it, I wouldn’t. Any moisture that somehow got by your plug would be somewhat trapped. Nor would I blow compressed air down the gap. Believe you would be pushing any moisture in it further into the gap. Just my opinion.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Even if it were to rust. We will be long gone before it becomes an issue!

 

[SDSmlf]

Even if it were to rust. We will be long gone before it becomes an issue!

40 years plus years old and no rust on the one I own. Doubt there is anything to worry about, unless worrying is one of your hobbies, then in that case, worry away.

 

[THBailey]

Just FYI, here is some discussion concerning the Pedersoli 20 ga SxS.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/another-pedersoli-sxs.109400/#post-1482936

 

[Historian]

I own 3 of the Pedersoli 20's and they are closer to 19 gauges, 2 caplocks and the flintlock which I have customized. I had the standing breech, locks, trigger plate, trigger guard, wedge plates, entry thimble and butt plate CCH on it. I just purchased the second caplock 4 days ago and I give it 4.9 out of 5 stars. I love all three of them. I was lucky in that the flintlock and this second caplock do not have the overly tight modified left barrel like I have on the first caplock I bought 5 years ago. Both of these will take 0.61 caliber round balls. I plan on deer and pig hunting with both of these as soon as I can work up a load.
As for the shot loads I use in the 1st 20 I bought the below has worked incredible well.

75 gr's OE 2Fg, 19 ga. leather over powder wad 1/8inch. I use a 16 mm wad punch. Leather works far better than paper products, and is stronger and more flexible for loading. I personally think it gives a better gas seal than the hard cardboard wads.
On top of that I either use 1/4 or 3/8 inch 19 ga. felt wads I cut or the 19 ga. 1/2 in fiber wads from TOW/DGW, all lubed with Mink Oil from TOW. I have used Bore Butter and it worked ok for fall and winter but is a soupy mess in the summer time. I have also used peanut oil and olive oil and they worked too, however I was worried about powder contamination while hunting so I have settled on Mink Oil for hunting purposes.
Then I load 1 oz. of lead or bismuth shot.
Last I load the same 19 ga. Fiber or Felt wads that I mentioned above to keep the load in place and to seal the bore.

This has been an excellent combination out to 40 yards.

If I use OE 3Fg, I drop the powder charge to 65 grains and everything else remains the same. 70 grains also works but has a stiffer recoil. OE is hotter than standard Goex.

As to cleaning, I preclean in the field with Ballistol/Water moose milk. At home cleaning takes about 20 mins max. I use warm water. Dry out the bores with patches including the breech areas, hit it with WD 40 in the barrels, run a patch down each barrel and then use straight Ballistol in the barrels. I then clean the lock area and locks with the same moose milk. As to the 2 holes you mention in the bottom of the barrel joints I hit them with WD 40, then let it run out as WD 40 is not good for gun stocks. I then drop a few drops of straight Ballistol down them. I then use a barbers brush and apply a light coat of straight Ballistol to the whole gun. I have never had a problem with rust.

You will love your new Pedersoli 20 SXS and I hope you have as much fun as I have had. Keep your powder dry!

P.S.
Looking at your serial number our guns were made most likely on the very same day within 13 numbers of each other.

 

[Enfield58]

I took the shotgun out today to see if I could break my record of two birds from the last trip

The Champion thrower worked like a Swiss Watch. I broke a lot of birds today. Most of them hitting the trees. The rest were taken out with the shotgun

I put 90 rounds through the gun today. That's 45 rounds for each barrel. I had about 5 or 6 miss-fires. And that was with the Hot-Shot nipples which I thought would cure the problem.

I suppose that I should not get too upset over that small number of miss-fires compared to the entire lot of ammunition that I shot today but I am. These were the type of miss-fires that I had to clear with a trickle of powder underneath the nipple. That makes it frustrating.

I suppose I could remove a little metal in the porting to the chamber. That's the portion that is directly underneath the nipple. However, there looks like a big enough hole to route the flame from the cap to the powder.

I'm thinking about getting the nipples that take musket caps so I can get a hotter more reliable flame to the powder.

This is the one from TOW that I am thinking of using. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/159/1/RST-MS

If anyone has any thought on the matter, your comments are greatly appreciated.

 

[Britsmoothy]

My money is on oil sweating out of the threads of the plugs.
Clean with boiling water. Don't use wd40.

 

[Enfield58]

My money is on oil sweating out of the threads of the plugs.
Clean with boiling water. Don't use wd40.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there would still be oil left in the threads where the breech plug mates with the barrel and that is still making its way out into the chamber? When it does so, it contaminates the powder and prevents it from igniting.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there would still be oil left in the threads where the breech plug mates with the barrel and that is still making its way out into the chamber? When it does so, it contaminates the powder and prevents it from igniting.

Yes.
It takes the minutest amount to put the flame out some how.
Been there and have the t shirt, it's why I keep banging a drum on the subject!

 

[Enfield58]

Yes.
It takes the minutest amount to put the flame out some how.
Been there and have the t shirt, it's why I keep banging a drum on the subject!

Understood. I will try that.

I've used my favorite MAP solution on other guns before but not this shotgun. The hooked breech makes cleaning easy.

I used the hot tap water in the bath tub but will get a pot of boiling hot water to clean the barrel.

I have a plastic box that gunsmiths use to blue barrels with. The shotgun barrel fits in there nicely and has been used to clean it previously.

Tell me what you think. I gave the gun a thorough cleaning last night. However, I can put the shotgun barrel in the box and fill it up with boiling hot water then let it sit for about half hour. Then dry and oil. Would that be enough to force all the oil out?

Many thanks.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I am pretty sure that the Pedersoli shotgun has a form of chambered breech. With a muzzleloader, fouling will build up even using relatively clean powders and wiping between shots or even not wiping. As Britsmoothie has noted the breech plugs were installed with some lubricant. In a new gun, some will leech out and may contaminate the load as small amounts of fouling build up.

You fired 45 times per barrel. Fouling will build up. Misfires will occur. The powder under tbe nipple is blasting that fouling out of the flash channel. Before I would go to musket caps, I would use magnum caps for a hotter flame and more volume of ignition to blow the fouling out of the flash channel. If you do have a chambered breech, I would use a chambered size breech brush wrapped with a damp patch to clear the breech. With the brush and patch at the beech, I would fire a cap to blow fouling onto the patch to be pulled out.

 

[Capnball]

Pedersoli's website says it's cylinder bore and modified. No interchangeable choke tubes.



I have a flintlock rifle in .45 caliber on order. This one has to be percussion because that is what my Howdah pistol uses for the ignition system.

I have to admit the fowling pieces are really classy!

If decide to go deep (and by that I mean buy what you want) contact Pedersoli directly. If they don't have exactly what you want in their catalog, they do have a custom shop that can build you pretty much anything you can think of.
"Money talks..........."

 

[Britsmoothy]

Understood. I will try that.

I've used my favorite MAP solution on other guns before but not this shotgun. The hooked breech makes cleaning easy.

I used the hot tap water in the bath tub but will get a pot of boiling hot water to clean the barrel.

I have a plastic box that gunsmiths use to blue barrels with. The shotgun barrel fits in there nicely and has been used to clean it previously.

Tell me what you think. I gave the gun a thorough cleaning last night. However, I can put the shotgun barrel in the box and fill it up with boiling hot water then let it sit for about half hour. Then dry and oil. Would that be enough to force all the oil out?

Many thanks.

Friend, just keep hold of the barrels with a towel and pour boiling water through them. Use damp patches then a drying one or two. The heat will lift oils and lead too. No need to get all fancy honest.

 

[THBailey]

Just a couple of thoughts. By "misfire" do you mean the hammer fell and nothing happened, or the cap popped but no main charge ignition?

If the former, after capping gently set the hammer on the cap then push on the back of the hammer spur to seat the cap completely down on the nipple.

If the latter, were the misfires random throughout the session, or did they only start after a number of shots out of the offending barrel? Might give some thought to changing up your caps and powder. I like the CCI magnum caps and I am told genuine black powder ignites easier than the substitutes.

When I load I ram down the overpowder wad with enthusiasm, I like to hear the whoosh of air passing out the nipple, confirms a clear channel.

 

[Enfield58]

Just a couple of thoughts. By "misfire" do you mean the hammer fell and nothing happened, or the cap popped but no main charge ignition?

If the former, after capping gently set the hammer on the cap then push on the back of the hammer spur to seat the cap completely down on the nipple.

If the latter, were the misfires random throughout the session, or did they only start after a number of shots out of the offending barrel? Might give some thought to changing up your caps and powder. I like the CCI magnum caps and I am told genuine black powder ignites easier than the substitutes.

When I load I ram down the overpowder wad with enthusiasm, I like to hear the whoosh of air passing out the nipple, confirms a clear channel.

The cap popped but the main charge did not ignite. The miss-fires were random throughout the session.

I bought some Winchester magnum caps at the local gun store yesterday. I fired about a couple dozen rounds with the magnum caps. The only miss-fire occurred with the first shot on the right barrel.

I had trouble seating that cap as I think it got a little deformed out of the capper. That, I suspect was the culprit. The rest of the shots went off without any problems.

I will take it out again today. In the meantime, I ordered a ton of CCI magnum caps from Midway USA. I don't know how long it will last but they have a special in which they will pay the hazmat fee.

 

[Eterry]

I started parking my black powder guns muzzle down after cleaning... that really helps.
Also get some cci magnum caps... you'll be amazed how much better they work.

 

[Enfield58]

I shot 92 rounds today; 46 in each barrel. Not a single miss-fire with the magnum caps!

I've got the itch to see if I can call coyotes in close enough to get them with a load of 00 or 000 buckshot.