My daughter just shot very well in the state 4H shoot and now has qualified to shoot in the nationals. For the state shoot she used one of the instructors rifles. What we are looking for is a 45 cal. that she can compete with. Set trigger and not to front heavy " she has some issues with arthritis". I might be kidding myself by thinking we could get an accurate rifle for $500 to $600. I myself know guns but not much about black powder muzzleloaders. Any brands or models or just shooting tips would be a great help. Thanks
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A T/C Hawken rifle should do the job at less than your budget. They're accurate and not especially heavy. I understand they've done well in competitions in the past. I'm a heavy barrel rifle myself, but I don't compete off-hand. (Or in any other discipline.)
Lots of rifles out there well within your budget. A .45 might be a minor problem, though. Not an especially popular main-stream rifle caliber for some reason. Look around.
Lots of rifles out there well within your budget. A .45 might be a minor problem, though. Not an especially popular main-stream rifle caliber for some reason. Look around.
meanmike8665
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Please go the the NMLRA website and look for Field Rep's in your state. I think you will find some help with your questions and places to look for rifles.
Michael
Michael
Don Steele
45 Cal.
If possible, get every detail you can about the rifle she borrowed and did well with. Caliber, weight, barrel length, barrel dimensions, stock dimensions, length of pull, drop at comb, cast...well, you get the idea.
In the marketplace of muzzleloading rifles you will find a very wide variety of choices in all of the parameters I mentioned above. Starting out with something that is at least close to one you already know she can shoot well might be a good place to start.
Pre-owned Thompson Center rifles are widely available, often at very attractive prices. They are generally good shooters and offer a lot of quality for the money. If you find one that is heavily discounted due to a barrel in poor condition, original T/C and aftermarket barrels are all over Ebay.
Contact the NMLRA (National Muzzleloading Rifle Association)in Friendship,IN to find out if there are any Charter clubs or field representatives close to you.
Good Luck, and congratulations to your daughter for her shooting and to you for getting her into our sport. :thumbsup:
In the marketplace of muzzleloading rifles you will find a very wide variety of choices in all of the parameters I mentioned above. Starting out with something that is at least close to one you already know she can shoot well might be a good place to start.
Pre-owned Thompson Center rifles are widely available, often at very attractive prices. They are generally good shooters and offer a lot of quality for the money. If you find one that is heavily discounted due to a barrel in poor condition, original T/C and aftermarket barrels are all over Ebay.
Contact the NMLRA (National Muzzleloading Rifle Association)in Friendship,IN to find out if there are any Charter clubs or field representatives close to you.
Good Luck, and congratulations to your daughter for her shooting and to you for getting her into our sport. :thumbsup:
There is a T/C Hawken listed on this forum's site. It's a 50 caliber with peep sights. Loaded down, it's worth considering.
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savagedan said:
With that combo I'd sure be looking for a TC Seneca. Smaller and lighter, yet with all the features of a full-size Hawken. You'll pay more than you might for a Hawken, but she'll be lots happier in the end.
The Seneca is a good suggestion. We have one fitted with a .45 Douglas barrels that has been used in competition for decades and done very well. Prior to that we (mostly my wife) used, also previously mentioned, H&A underhammers and we have stacks of medals that attest to their winning capabilities. Might have to search to find one. Trigger will need work.
I would suggest a caplock in .45 cal half stocked rifle weighting around 6.5 pounds. I've built two like this for women shooters who compete regularly and do VERY well with them. The rifles both have wide shotgun style butt plates to distribute recoil better.
Col. Batguano
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Most importantly, what are the rules concerning the gun she will be competing with, and the sanctioning body for the competition. What position(s) are to be shot from, and the course of fire? All formal matches have rules governing the equipment, clothing, sighting, and timing the competition is to be conducted under. There will be rules for the individual match as well. Some competitions segregate by gender and age, and some do not.
Once we know that, we'll be in a better position to make recommendations.
There is another web site; www.targettalk.com that you can to to their whole competition section regarding shooting technique, training regimen, nutrition, tactics, and all that stuff. They go in to FAR more detail there, than you are likely to hear here.. The fundamentals of shooting are pretty much the same for all classes of firearms within their discipline (rifle, shotgun, pistol). There are some subtleties that are different (for instance smallbore vs. large bore) but they are pretty minor adjustments.
Once we know that, we'll be in a better position to make recommendations.
There is another web site; www.targettalk.com that you can to to their whole competition section regarding shooting technique, training regimen, nutrition, tactics, and all that stuff. They go in to FAR more detail there, than you are likely to hear here.. The fundamentals of shooting are pretty much the same for all classes of firearms within their discipline (rifle, shotgun, pistol). There are some subtleties that are different (for instance smallbore vs. large bore) but they are pretty minor adjustments.
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I have been told that at the 4H nationals they shoot bottles at 25 yards and metal silhouettes at 50, 75 and 100 yards. All shots are from a standing position. A shooting stick can be used at 100 yards and maybe at 75. Any sights are ok but they must be open or peep. They have a 45. cal. minimum and a lot of the kids seem to be shooting them, I heard they have a little flatter trajectory. The gun she shot at the state shoot was a 50. cal. T/C Hawken.
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I very much agree it is important to know at what range distances your daughter will shoot at and from what shooting positions.
If she is shooting at 25 yards, then a .36 caliber is plenty large enough caliber and easy on the shoulder. However, I would want at least the .45 caliber for 50 yards or longer shooting.
At one 5 round, "open sight," Offhand 25 yard match, I was in first place for most of the day with my repro Post AWI, flintlock .45 caliber rifle and a score of 48 with 2 X's, until the wife of a very good friend beat me with a .36 Seneca that was fitted with adjustable sights. It was a "re-entry" match and she beat me with a 49 with no X's on her third target.
When I went up to congratulate her, she was very embarrassed to learn she had beat me and apologized, though I grinned broadly and told her she won fair and square by the rules of the match.
Gus
If she is shooting at 25 yards, then a .36 caliber is plenty large enough caliber and easy on the shoulder. However, I would want at least the .45 caliber for 50 yards or longer shooting.
At one 5 round, "open sight," Offhand 25 yard match, I was in first place for most of the day with my repro Post AWI, flintlock .45 caliber rifle and a score of 48 with 2 X's, until the wife of a very good friend beat me with a .36 Seneca that was fitted with adjustable sights. It was a "re-entry" match and she beat me with a 49 with no X's on her third target.
When I went up to congratulate her, she was very embarrassed to learn she had beat me and apologized, though I grinned broadly and told her she won fair and square by the rules of the match.
Gus
WOMEN!How many of us ever went and stole a baking or sewing trophy from our wives? :shake:
:rotf: My wife has often out shot me. Now the kids is gone and meat isnt such a goal she bout quit hunting :grin:
Col. Batguano
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Do they allow in-lines? Shooting jackets? Shooting shoes?
Those don't fly at traditional BP matches, but it sounds like your rules may be looser.
The most accurate gun is going to be an in-line stocked very similarly to unlimited class free rifles used in large bore and smallbore competitions. Sights would also be very similar. It's not the sort of thing we discuss here, but it's the truth. Such a gun would be a purely custom gun.
Wearing a shooting jacket and shoes will shrink offhand groups considerably.
Get the book from USA Shooting on Rifle shooting. It goes in to position building quite a bit. There is no good substitute for solid fundamentals, especially in standing.
That said, if you are committed to a traditional sidelock, you should use a cap gun. Patent breeches are a little bit faster than drum breeches. A gun with a good butt hook to it will allow her to "hang" the gun on her shoulder. There is such a thing as having too heavy of a gun though. A straight barrel is going to be heavier than a swamped or tapered barrel. The further forward you can have the balance point, the more the gun will "hang" on the target. (You want it a little further back for prone position).
You will also want to work on the comb a little bit so that she gets a good solid cheek weld. You want the head as straight up and down as possible when engaging sights. A "cocked" head impairs balance. If the comb is too low you can build it up with duct tape. For most, they shoot peep sights better than traditional open sights. I would suggest you keep your barrel length as short as practical, maybe 32" at most, but 28" wouldn't be bad either. Shorter barrels are stiffer, and there is less "dwell time" for the projectile. Weigh them, and use those that are closest together in weight.
The shooting sports are like any other sport. You get in to them slowly, and eventually you get sucked in to spending tens of thousands of dollars if you go far enough.
Those don't fly at traditional BP matches, but it sounds like your rules may be looser.
The most accurate gun is going to be an in-line stocked very similarly to unlimited class free rifles used in large bore and smallbore competitions. Sights would also be very similar. It's not the sort of thing we discuss here, but it's the truth. Such a gun would be a purely custom gun.
Wearing a shooting jacket and shoes will shrink offhand groups considerably.
Get the book from USA Shooting on Rifle shooting. It goes in to position building quite a bit. There is no good substitute for solid fundamentals, especially in standing.
That said, if you are committed to a traditional sidelock, you should use a cap gun. Patent breeches are a little bit faster than drum breeches. A gun with a good butt hook to it will allow her to "hang" the gun on her shoulder. There is such a thing as having too heavy of a gun though. A straight barrel is going to be heavier than a swamped or tapered barrel. The further forward you can have the balance point, the more the gun will "hang" on the target. (You want it a little further back for prone position).
You will also want to work on the comb a little bit so that she gets a good solid cheek weld. You want the head as straight up and down as possible when engaging sights. A "cocked" head impairs balance. If the comb is too low you can build it up with duct tape. For most, they shoot peep sights better than traditional open sights. I would suggest you keep your barrel length as short as practical, maybe 32" at most, but 28" wouldn't be bad either. Shorter barrels are stiffer, and there is less "dwell time" for the projectile. Weigh them, and use those that are closest together in weight.
The shooting sports are like any other sport. You get in to them slowly, and eventually you get sucked in to spending tens of thousands of dollars if you go far enough.
Eddie Southgate
36 Cal.
Zug said:I would suggest a caplock in .45 cal half stocked rifle weighting around 6.5 pounds. I've built two like this for women shooters who compete regularly and do VERY well with them. The rifles both have wide shotgun style butt plates to distribute recoil better.
Zug ,
Thats one fine looking rifle . You do exceptionally nice work .
Eddie
WyomingWhitetail
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Great to hear of your daughter's success in the 4H program. I myself was heavily involved in the 4H shooting program from ages 8 to 18 and really think it's a great program. Pretty much everyone in our club was shooting a hawken type rifle of imported origins and they were very capable of fine accuracy. Almost everyone was shooting either .50 or .54 calibers but that was mostly due to availability. A .45 would work well as well.
Our course of fire was 5 shots at clay pigeons at 25 yards, 5 shots at a double bull target at 25 yards, 5 shots at a six bull target at 25 yards, one shot at a 50 yard gong and 5 shots at a single bull target at 50 yards. Every state may be different, I have no idea. I always shot my dad's .54 cal cabelas kit hawken and typically did very well so I don't think I would be worried at all about selecting one of the well known production type hawken rifles to compete at this level, especially if the competition is steel plate targets. I had never heard of a national competition so that's cool to know and I mostly just wanted to say good for you for getting your daughter involved in the program.
Our course of fire was 5 shots at clay pigeons at 25 yards, 5 shots at a double bull target at 25 yards, 5 shots at a six bull target at 25 yards, one shot at a 50 yard gong and 5 shots at a single bull target at 50 yards. Every state may be different, I have no idea. I always shot my dad's .54 cal cabelas kit hawken and typically did very well so I don't think I would be worried at all about selecting one of the well known production type hawken rifles to compete at this level, especially if the competition is steel plate targets. I had never heard of a national competition so that's cool to know and I mostly just wanted to say good for you for getting your daughter involved in the program.
ohio ramrod
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You did not mention your daughter's size. I prefer the old T.C Cherokee for younger shooters. Small , light to handle, and a very good 'Paper gun" they are available in 36 or 45 caliber. And can be found in excellent condition in the $400-$500 range. I know because I foolishly sold my boy's to a club member who wanted it for his daughter. She shot one year and moved to California to live with her mother. When my grandkids got old enough to shoot I tried to buy it back, but he wouldn't sell. So I ended up paying four hundred each for ones for the grandkids. :idunno: :idunno:
My dauther bough a .45 T/C hawken at a gun show today. The man that sold it to her was great, he dropped a bobber light down it and the bore showed no use at all. He said he had bough it from a person who won it in a raffle. He sold it to her for the same price he paid for it. He also cheered her on for her shooting and her win at state. Now we need to shoot the barrel in " I think you do". And put a set of target sights on it. Any ideas for sights, and mounting. I'm at alittle bit of a loss because the sights that are on it from the factory seem pretty close together. The more I talk to people involved in muzzle loaders the more smiles and information we get.
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