Taylor Uberti better than Uberti?

[GYJ]

That would be pretty much all of them!!

Mike

I once asked Jay Strite about the difference between using a Colt and a Uberti for an 1860 conversion. He said the modern Uberti is the better gun and described all the reasons why but them Colt's sure have nice case colors! Given that Turnbull will color one for next to nothing, kinda makes it a no-brainer.

 

[springfield art]

Mike Harvey is the founder of Cimarron and the person responsible for Uberti upping their game in the `80's.

I've got two dozen Uberti guns from every importer in business. There is no difference. Gun writers have gone into detail with the manufacturer and the importers and concluded the same thing. Any difference observed is going to boil down to variations between individual guns or batches of guns. Some of my nicest Uberti's have come from Dixie Gun Works.

This is a myth, rooted in truth. In the 1980's, Cimarron was paying an addition $30 per gun for better fit and finish work. They used this fact in their marketing. Sometime later, Uberti incorporated those changes into all of their guns. As I said, the 'myth' hasn't been true for at least 20yrs or more. At this point it's all just wishful thinking.

In fact, the only Uberti guns I have had issues with are Cimarrons. One was replaced outright by Cimarron, with one nearly as rough as the first. The other is just going to be kept for collection purposes.

Midway and Cabela's are retailers, not importers. Those guns are probably imported by Stoeger, Uberti's "house brand" importer. Why would they sell inferior guns under their own banner?

This is good info from you. Anyone with two dozen items, being a dedicated observer, so to speak, has a good deal of credibility, I'd think. Thanks.

 

[springfield art]

This is actually a perfectly clear and spot on idea

There have been good viewpoints on both sides, plus for example, MidWay is in no way inspecting these guns. All of mine are in the factory plastic bag with oil all over them, rubber banded up. MidWay is not paying employees to function test and inspect thousands of cap and ball revolvers plus paying people who know what to look for would be expensive.

The average buyer of a Pietta brasser is rarely going to shoot it, and Pietta knows this. Some of us do, I love a good Brasser but I remember these things when they were 79 bucks at Gander Mountain circa 2001 or so, and people bought them as woods blasters and to let kids run around snapping caps on them. There's probably tens of thousands of them quietly rusting away wrapped in old t-shirts in basements and garages across America. They're still 220 bucks, most buyers want to stuff it full of Pyrodex and if it goes Boom, life is good. They will still function safely with the chamber out of alignment. I'm sure half of my Piettas are like that.

Part of that theory makes my head sad, picturing a hard working Dad buying a blister pack .44 Navy to teach his son about Civil War Guns and dude gets a lemon that has an action that's like 20 miles of bad road, shoots 2 feet left and binds up after 3 shots because the hand isn't fitted right. But that's just Capitalism. Pietta sells the Grade C guns to people who probably won't care.

If the retailer has a return policy like Dixie, I assume they ship returned , defective guns back to Pietta for "credit" or for new guns. So Pietta doesn't want containers full of returns, so they make sure Dixie gets mostly good guns. The reviews show some lemons but they probably put some guns with sketchy QC in there too.

Or we are all wrong and Pietta and Uberti just make guns with varying levels of fitting, some good, some by the new guy, some were fitted at 4pm on a Friday, some by an older guy who makes more $$ and tries harder, and you get what you get.

The "cleanup" gun theory is solid, they go through the parts that got messed up and just use them, and blend them in with other guns if they need a few more guns to fill an order.

It's apparently a myth that Cimarron gets a "better" gun, they do have their name stamped on them so you'd think they wouldn't want turds with their brand on it but again, who knows. There are reports of bad Colt 2nd Gens too so you just never know.

Good comments. Not to nit-pick, but 1st Gen Colts are up to WW2, 2nd after WW2, then 3rd are the ones made in Italy and assembled here marked Colt; by the guy who runs Henry Rifles, BTW.

 

[springfield art]

I must be a geek, as I like reading about the pistols, and people's experience and observations about them. Keep it up! Informative and fun.

 

[maillemaker]

The problem with that is that by the time the guns are made, they're already stamped with the importer's markings. It's not like their QC staff can go over a finished gun and say, "this one's not quite up to snuff, let's send it to our house brand Stoeger instead of Cimarron".

The CMP is just grading existing guns with no care for how they're marked. Big difference.

I've never seen an Italian reproduction revolver that said anything other than the manufacturer's name on it. All of mine say "Pietta" or "Uberti". I have one that says "Euroarms". These guns are sold through a variety of retailers like Cabela's, EMF Company, Midway USA, and others. They could be graded.

I've never bought one from Dixie Gun Works or Cimarron or Taylor's so I can't comment on those.

But if they are selling guns with custom stampings, then there is no doubt these are special production runs for these importers. Clearly they are special at least in what is stamped on them, and there is going to be an up-charge for that service alone. And if they are willing to do special runs of specially-stamped guns, there's nothing from stopping them from doing other special services for those guns. In fact if I was an importer and I was going to pay extra to have a manufacturer custom stamp their guns for my own house brand, and I was going to have to sell them at a premium, I'd be making sure that what I got was beyond the quality of the "run of the mill" stuff sent out under the manufacturer's brand. If all you're paying for is a custom stamp, that would seem to be a hard sell to your customers to justify an increased cost.

 

[Stantheman86]

I've never seen an Italian reproduction revolver that said anything other than the manufacturer's name on it. All of mine say "Pietta" or "Uberti". I have one that says "Euroarms". These guns are sold through a variety of retailers like Cabela's, EMF Company, Midway USA, and others. They could be graded.

I've never bought one from Dixie Gun Works or Cimarron or Taylor's so I can't comment on those.

But if they are selling guns with custom stampings, then there is no doubt these are special production runs for these importers. Clearly they are special at least in what is stamped on them, and there is going to be an up-charge for that service alone. And if they are willing to do special runs of specially-stamped guns, there's nothing from stopping them from doing other special services for those guns. In fact if I was an importer and I was going to pay extra to have a manufacturer custom stamp their guns for my own house brand, and I was going to have to sell them at a premium, I'd be making sure that what I got was beyond the quality of the "run of the mill" stuff sent out under the manufacturer's brand. If all you're paying for is a custom stamp, that would seem to be a hard sell to your customers to justify an increased cost.

My Cimarron Walker has the Cimarron address on the barrel , the only other ones I've seen were the old Navy Arms or a Lyman 1858 Remington

 

[Stantheman86]

Good comments. Not to nit-pick, but 1st Gen Colts are up to WW2, 2nd after WW2, then 3rd are the ones made in Italy and assembled here marked Colt; by the guy who runs Henry Rifles, BTW.

The Colt branded cap and ballers are pretty murky waters, apparently the C series were Italian parts assembled by Colt, the F series were Italian parts assembled by the Iver Johnson company that (the Henry guy?) Tried to turn into the Colt Blackpowder Arms Co , and the Signature Series were just finished Ubertis with the Colt name on them

 

[GYJ]

I've never seen an Italian reproduction revolver that said anything other than the manufacturer's name on it. All of mine say "Pietta" or "Uberti". I have one that says "Euroarms". These guns are sold through a variety of retailers like Cabela's, EMF Company, Midway USA, and others. They could be graded.

I've never bought one from Dixie Gun Works or Cimarron or Taylor's so I can't comment on those.

But if they are selling guns with custom stampings, then there is no doubt these are special production runs for these importers. Clearly they are special at least in what is stamped on them, and there is going to be an up-charge for that service alone. And if they are willing to do special runs of specially-stamped guns, there's nothing from stopping them from doing other special services for those guns. In fact if I was an importer and I was going to pay extra to have a manufacturer custom stamp their guns for my own house brand, and I was going to have to sell them at a premium, I'd be making sure that what I got was beyond the quality of the "run of the mill" stuff sent out under the manufacturer's brand. If all you're paying for is a custom stamp, that would seem to be a hard sell to your customers to justify an increased cost.

They are all required by law to have importers markings on them. Be it Stoeger, Cimarron, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works, EMF, Navy Arms, etc..

 

[Bunk]

I just bought a London 1851 Uberti that came from Taylor. It went DIRECTLY to Hoof Hearted to have a laundry list of problems fixed and be fitted with an unmentionable conversion so I will have two guns one C&B and the other we do not talk about all in one.
Out of the box it would seem the head of Uberti QC is a poorly trained rat.
I only bought it because the price was right and would make a good base for the Krist conversion an idea that intrigued me otherwise I would not touch Uberti with a ten foot pole.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

 

[GYJ]

Good comments. Not to nit-pick, but 1st Gen Colts are up to WW2, 2nd after WW2, then 3rd are the ones made in Italy and assembled here marked Colt; by the guy who runs Henry Rifles, BTW.

Both the 2nd and 3rd generation percussion guns were in the 70's and 80's.

 

[cynthialee]

The Uberti I got from Midway was flawed to the point of ridiculous.

The Uberti I got from Taylors was beautiful in its' smooth action.

If it weren't for them both being Uberti I would have sworn they were made by a different company.

Now that is only 1 sample from each vendor but first impressions stick.

 

[Stantheman86]

Both the 2nd and 3rd generation percussion guns were in the 70's and 80's.

I think these "Gens" are more frequently applied to Colt Peacemakers since they were made continuously from 1873 until WWII, then post war production resumed

Colt stopped assembling percussion revolvers in about 1874 from cleanup parts and that was it, Gen 2 was the C Series guns and Gen 3 was the F series. Colt disowned the Signature Series and they don't letter as Colts

 

[Stantheman86]

That would be pretty much all of them!!

Mike

My C series Navy is pretty slick for a rebranded Italian

 

[Stantheman86]

The Uberti I got from Midway was flawed to the point of ridiculous.

The Uberti I got from Taylors was beautiful in its' smooth action.

If it weren't for them both being Uberti I would have sworn they were made by a different company.

Now that is only 1 sample from each vendor but first impressions stick.

I do feel Uberti pops the lemons into batches going to certain retailers that pay less wholesale $ for them

I can't imagine any of them are test fired anymore

I believe Uberti used to put a single round through their cap and ballers , or for some reason Dixie did, or I got a returned gun because the Dragoon I bought from Dixie had 1 chamber that looked fired and quickly cleaned

 

[Crow Choker]

Cimmaron even in their catalog and website at one time claimed they paid Uberti for extra fit and assembly. In 2005 I bought a 2nd Mod Dragoon from them and it worked fine and had Cimarron stamped on the barrel. In 2006 I bought a Open Top Colt revolver from them and sent it back as the rear sight was half gone, the right recoil shield had milling marks, and the case hardening was almost non-existent. Called Cimarron about the three problems, they said send it back and they'd fix and send back. Advised no I wanted a new gun and sent them a letter with all of Mike Harveys customer satisfaction claims. Received new gun. From several in the know at Cimarron, found out that the extra fit and this and that were all just selling claims. I don't think Cimarron makes the extra fitting claim anymore.

I've bought cap and balls and conversions both from Taylors along with those I've bought from Cimarron. Have also bought one each at Cabela's and Midway. All seemed the same. Had to do minor tweaking to most. I swear Cabela's used to be the dumping ground for Pietta rejects. Saw alot of shoddy revolver's in person at two different stores. I'll say Pietta has come along way with quality and quality control over the years. Some of the brassers I still see don't qualify as paperweights, of course I'd never buy a brass frame. The Uberti Walker I bought at Cabela's just needed some arbor fine tuning and works fine. The Uberti Whittneyville Dragoon I bought from Midway was without flaw. Everyone of the Uberti's I've bought I'm happy with, a few needed some brass spacers in the arbor hole, some of the Uberti's arbor's were right on. The several Pietta's I have are good, no problems. A Richards/Mason Uberti I bought from Taylors needed some timing work with the cylinder as did the Cimarron Open Top revolver.

As has been posted on this thread, the plants in Italy aren't producing revolvers as in the heyday of Colt or Smith and Wesson for superb timing and flawless workmanship, they ain't Colt Pythons or Smith Mod 27's, but glad they are making them and making them available to shooters. I've talked with alot of cap and ball/conversion shooters over the years. Have read here and there what others say. Some have no complaints, some a few, but some have all kinds of complaints, but alot of the complainers don't clean well nor do what is needed to run a black powder cap gun. For what it's worth, of the dozen or so cappers I have, my 2nd Mod Dragoon is my favorite as is my Richards II my fav conversion type. Reload and shoot black in the 44 Colt Conversion Colts.

 

[maillemaker]

They are all required by law to have importers markings on them. Be it Stoeger, Cimarron, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works, EMF, Navy Arms, etc..

Are you sure? I have several revolvers purchased from Cabela's and MidwayUSA that have no markings other than the manufacturer. Out of my 9-10 revolvers, only one has an importer stamp - a Rogers and Spencer made in Italy stamped "Euroarms of America".

 

[earlwb]

Since several people mentioned it, the importer cannot sell the guns for less than MSRP. The gun stores can sell them for less than MSRP. Otherwise none of the stores would order the guns in to sell if the importer is going to sell them for less than they can.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I have found that when it comes to BP revolvers, there is so much "whining" about them that it is hard to hear your self think? It is the only venue I know of where people expect a hand fitted, polished and tested revolver for$300 bucks or so?. Not happening, now or ever. Cimarron pays for certain "period correct" markings and for certain "finishes". Their firearms are not fitted any better than any other reputable retailers (Taylors) firearms, that I am aware of. Back int he day the biggest complaint with Italian BP firearms was the "soft" steel ,especially in screws and internal pieces. That has apparently improved quite a bit, but I still believe the screws are one step over "garbage" being way to soft for any kind of heavy usage. The Italians know how to make fine quality firearms. Beretta is the oldest firearms maker in existence and no one ever said a Perazzi was a poor shotgun. What we get in a BP firearm is purely a matter of price point. IMHO.

 

[ernbar]

I honestly feel it’s the roll of the dice as they come out of the manufacturer. Most complaints I hear are about Ubertis. As a matter of fact, a couple of months back I was at a BP shop near me and heard a conversation regarding Uberti quality complaints and almost none about Pietta.

I recently bought an Uberti Dragoon from Midway with several issues that I easily corrected. Then soon after I got from them a n Uberti 62 Pocket Police running 100% perfect in fit and finish, quite a different experience.
Midway has fantastic prices and apparently can lower the prices to consumers while other suppliers want a higher profit.

 

[Stantheman86]

The Italian gunmakers started making these for the Civil War Centennial and because of Spaghetti Westerns

They're in it to make $$ like any other gunmaker

Ruger PO'd some people with a little thing they pulled regarding a "limited production " gun, the whining was loud but, Ruger doesn't care , they are a business, their goal is to sell guns

They do make them to a price point and I feel that Pietta put more effort into their production with the CNC machinery because they're probably selling more blackpowder revolvers than ever to the worldwide market, plus the American fascination with the Wild West, movies like Tombstone, the fact that 95% of states allow you to just order these to your door.....people can use the new cleaner burning stuff like American Pioneer powder in them.....

YouTube has probably no less than 20 people including that ***** The Original B Godfather or whatever his name is with millions of subscribers doing YouTube videos on brassers he got off Bud K and cheap made in Pakistan Bowie knives. Plus excellent content from guys like Mike Bellevue, The Natural Man, and others, are getting people interested in these guns. And , like was said , they're cheap and unless you get an exceptionally bad one, they function for range popping.

Rural America is a gun culture and always has been, I've never not had people curious about the smoke blower revolvers and my "Civil War" rifles and muskets at the range , even in passing. I'm sure I've helped sell a few after letting someone's kid pop a round off through a .36 Navy , or the younger couple who walked over to the pistol pits because they thought something was on fire and saw me with a .44 Brasser in each hand popping paper targets. That guy was fascinated. Guys who are into guns want to do cool stuff, own fun guns and do something different. I was all like, I'll load you up and let you roll through a cylinder in these things but I think his wife thought I was weird and she's like , we have to go pick up pizza , have fun oh well, I guarantee hubs was on his phone that night Googling Black Powder Revolvers and planning how to sneak one into his gun cabinet....