Taylor Uberti better than Uberti?

[Stantheman86]

I have found that when it comes to BP revolvers, there is so much "whining" about them that it is hard to hear your self think? It is the only venue I know of where people expect a hand fitted, polished and tested revolver for$300 bucks or so?. Not happening, now or ever. Cimarron pays for certain "period correct" markings and for certain "finishes". Their firearms are not fitted any better than any other reputable retailers (Taylors) firearms, that I am aware of. Back int he day the biggest complaint with Italian BP firearms was the "soft" steel ,especially in screws and internal pieces. That has apparently improved quite a bit, but I still believe the screws are one step over "garbage" being way to soft for any kind of heavy usage. The Italians know how to make fine quality firearms. Beretta is the oldest firearms maker in existence and no one ever said a Perazzi was a poor shotgun. What we get in a BP firearm is purely a matter of price point. IMHO.

Also as evidenced by the Pietta nipples I wore out after only a few hundred rounds

It is even advised by Track of the Wolf to discard factory nipples and install aftermarket nipples, but then again they're in the business of selling their own.

There is or was companies making aftermarket parts for Italian cartridge revolvers for CAS shooters, some will fit cap and ballers. I have yet to see a screw kit but one may exist. I know Lodgewood sells an upgraded Pietta hammer

 

[WSAR15]

Are the stampings on an Uberti revolver (under the barrel) the same as on Taylor Uberti (does Taylor add their stampings or differnt ones)?

 

[WSAR15]

Also keep in mind, that blackpowder revolvers are a different animal in the gun world and the Italian gunmakers have a different mindset than American manufacturers.

These aren't "firearms " legally in many countries and aren't legally held to any SAAMI or other spec like the cartridge guns from the same manufacturers. So they absolutely can send Second Quality guns or ones that pass QC and function and fire , but are still somewhat wonky to places that pay less for them like Bud K or Midway. They know most buyers view them as toys or range blasters , and won't know or care about timing or arbors as long as they go bang. People who go to Cimarron or Taylor's are obviously looking for a specific gun to shoot for CAS or to actually use. Not a guy at Cabelas who buys a $210 Brasser that looked cool while he was looking for RealTree overalls and will probably put 20 rounds through, ever.

If you've ever emailed Piettas customer service, it's definitely an adventure, I wish I could pull up old emails from 2007 or so when I asked the Pietta CS guy why my wedge slot peened after a day of shooting, and he basically told me they don't heat treat barrels and they don't have to, and I should have been more careful

......or dealt with any Italian manufacturer i.e. my friend who was trying to get Ducati parts from Ducati. They 100% told him that they're on summer break and they get around to making what they make, when they get to it and he has to wait.

The Italians are a proud people and they don't kiss customers butts. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Blackpowder Italian guns are and always will be a dice roll unless you can inspect them hands on before buying and cherry pick like Dr Nemeth and his colleagues who look through a bunch of Uberti Walkers to find a nice , in spec one to use for Match shooting. Plus they have a big in with Pedersoli and probably the other gunmakers

MidWay has a no return policy and I'm fully aware of that, there's probably a reason for it . But I saved a few 100 bucks buying guns I wanted vs buying elsewhere and I'm happy with what I got given my expectations.

I bought two Ubertis from Midway in November. The Walker was dammaged and had been shipped that way and the Whitneyville was defective in firing (cylinder would stick in a couple positions though it would rotate fine in half cocked setting). They replaced the Whitneyville but the Walker was BO so they refunded me. They were very prompt and nice about handling the issues. I bought a 1861 Navy to replace the Walker.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I bought two Ubertis from Midway in November. The Walker was dammaged and had been shipped that way and the Whitneyville was defective in firing (cylinder would stick in a couple positions though it would rotate fine in half cocked setting). They replaced the Whitneyville but the Walker was BO so they refunded me. They were very prompt and nice about handling the issues.

hard to believe you got 2 defective pistols at once. doesn't happen that much

 

[WSAR15]

hard to believe you got 2 defective pistols at once. doesn't happen that much

The Walker was physically dammaged (Trigger guard and grip gouged) and its box torn up. I assume it was old stock and shipping messed up (shuld not have shipped). The Whitneyville was mechanical and not noticeable unless you pulled the trigger sequentially. I was surprized - these were my first black powder revolvers.

 

[Tyler L]

I bought a Uberti 1851 with 5" barrel from Midway last month. I was surprised when it arrived in a Taylor's box and soft case. Would that be because Taylor's is the only importer of the short barrel versions?

The price was $369 versus Taylor's $383. I had watched most of Mike Beliveau's videos so I was expecting to have to do a lot of deburring. There actually wasn't much to be done, and it looked like someone (either Uberti or Taylor's) had done some fitting and smoothing of the hand. None of the screws or nipples were overly tight as some have reported. It did have the short arbor syndrome: 0.066" short as best I could measure so I drilled the arbor and turned up a brass button to extend it.

 

[Stantheman86]

The Walker was physically dammaged (Trigger guard and grip gouged) and its box torn up. I assume it was old stock and shipping messed up (shuld not have shipped). The Whitneyville was mechanical and not noticeable unless you pulled the trigger sequentially. I was surprized - these were my first black powder revolvers.

Anything Italian is a crap shoot.......my new Pedersoli CS Richmond has a hammer that doesn't hit the nipple square so now I have to "tweak" a $1200 rifle

 

[ernbar]

All my BP pistols are from Midway except my Pietta Remy from Bass Pro. All are very good and no issues except my Uberti Dragoon that had a couple of very minor things that I easily corrected. My Uberti pocket police from Midway is a gorgeous little gem.

 

[Bunk]

Are the stamping on an Uberti revolver (under the barrel) the same as on Taylor Uberti (does Taylor add their stampings or differnt ones)?

T.they were no Taylor stamps on the gun. and on mine and some under rammer and under the trigger guard on the frame. The barrel and frame were both numbered.
After an additional $140 in gunsmith work I have a very nice usable hand gun.
The good part is it looks and work like it should now.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[manbat]

Always interesting to read these long discussions that attempt to find patterns but that ignore the key factors. The answers lie in manufacturing, marketing, and sales.

First off, for those that believe there are quality differences specific to a Uberti, Cimarron, Taylors, or take your pick, you will never find a pattern because the manufacturing process for all of them is the same with varying tolerances and quality factors designed in. Setting aside whether some resell seconds or defective products, all manufacturers today design a manufacturing process to meet target quality and price points. Those targets have variance on the + and - side of what all are describing as quality differences. The degree of variance has a direct correlation to cost. What all are defining as the quality differences across importers/retailers is nothing more than the variance and range of quality tolerance each manufacturer allows in products that leave their facilities. The wider the variance the less costly all manufactured output is as a result of less loss/waste.

Some guns from each manufacturer are great, some are OK, and some are crap. The degree of greatness, OK-ness, and crappiness, is predefined by each manufacturer. It will not change until the quality and cost parameters are changed. You can buy a lesser-cost BP firearm that will be of the best quality and a higher-cost firearm that could be of lesser quality. It's all designed in, and the luck of draw for what you get from a blind online purchase.

We can also guess that as a consumer group, there is no significant market for replica arms that are manufactured to tighter quality tolerances. Manufacturers and retailers have decided, no doubt from their market research, that there aren't enough buyers that would be willing to pay the higher cost.

 

[Stantheman86]

Always interesting to read these long discussions that attempt to find patterns but that ignore the key factors. The answers lie in manufacturing, marketing, and sales.

First off, for those that believe there are quality differences specific to a Uberti, Cimarron, Taylors, or take your pick, you will never find a pattern because the manufacturing process for all of them is the same with varying tolerances and quality factors designed in. Setting aside whether some resell seconds or defective products, all manufacturers today design a manufacturing process to meet target quality and price points. Those targets have variance on the + and - side of what all are describing as quality differences. The degree of variance has a direct correlation to cost. What all are defining as the quality differences across importers/retailers is nothing more than the variance and range of quality tolerance each manufacturer allows in products that leave their facilities. The wider the variance the less costly all manufactured output is as a result of less loss/waste.

Some guns from each manufacturer are great, some are OK, and some are crap. The degree of greatness, OK-ness, and crappiness, is predefined by each manufacturer. It will not change until the quality and cost parameters are changed. You can buy a lesser-cost BP firearm that will be of the best quality and a higher-cost firearm that could be of lesser quality. It's all designed in, and the luck of draw for what you get from a blind online purchase.

We can also guess that as a consumer group, there is no significant market for replica arms that are manufactured to tighter quality tolerances. Manufacturers and retailers have decided, no doubt from their market research, that there aren't enough buyers that would be willing to pay the higher cost.

This is an excellent post
The repro market is profit driven and there are very very few people willing to pay $1000+ for a hand fitted , perfect percussion revolver and those that are.....can buy a repro and send it to someone like 45D

Smith & Wesson did market research years ago and they found that something like 80% of customers and end users like Police Officers never fired more than 50 rounds per year through their revolvers, and another large % never fired them again after maybe a test fire - familiarization

I think the Italian manufacturers know this too , that the majority of buyers of repro percussion revolvers will seldom shoot them and they just want a "toy" to take out once in a while. It's not worth the extra man hours and increase in cost to do better QC for people who won't even notice

Blatently botched and damaged guns are inexcusable of course, but I'm talking revolvers that have imperfect chamber alignment , spotty chamber sizing, sloppy timing etc etc Joe Sixpack will never know any better as long as it safely busts a beer can or puts a hole in the paper

 

[Black Dog]

I have found that when it comes to BP revolvers, there is so much "whining" about them that it is hard to hear your self think? It is the only venue I know of where people expect a hand fitted, polished and tested revolver for$300 bucks or so?. Not happening, now or ever. Cimarron pays for certain "period correct" markings and for certain "finishes". Their firearms are not fitted any better than any other reputable retailers (Taylors) firearms, that I am aware of. Back int he day the biggest complaint with Italian BP firearms was the "soft" steel ,especially in screws and internal pieces. That has apparently improved quite a bit, but I still believe the screws are one step over "garbage" being way to soft for any kind of heavy usage. The Italians know how to make fine quality firearms. Beretta is the oldest firearms maker in existence and no one ever said a Perazzi was a poor shotgun. What we get in a BP firearm is purely a matter of price point. IMHO.

Soft steel indeed; the pair of Remington replicas I bought from Navy Arms in 1968 each self-destructed after less than 50 rounds, loading-lever latches pulled out of their dovetails and the barrel/cylinder gaps nearly quadrupled. Since then -- with but one recent exception -- I have (correctly) assumed that any Italian ML that is not a sidelock single-shot or double-barrel model is junk: I gambled once more on allegedly "much-improved" Uberti replicas of the Colt Third Model Dragoon revolver in 1990, but these self-destructed as quickly as the '68-vintage Remingtons; fortunately the merchant was DGW, which took them on return and gave me maximum refunds against a pair of Ruger Old Armies, one of which, loaded with maximum charges of 4F Goex, turned out to be the most accurate revolver I've ever owned, 1/2-inch six-round groups off the sandbags at 25 yards and dependably able to hit water-filled gallon jugs or cans at 100 yards whether with .457 swaged balls or 220-gr. home-cast Lee conicals, the latter an almost comical BOOM..............thwap interval between report and impact. Significantly, penetration tests showed the Lee conical when cast of wheel-weights equalled the cast-bullet performance of maximum Ruger-Blackhawk .45-Colt loads at bear-emergency ranges. My two OAs were absolutely reliable, too; never had a misfire, hang-fire or cap-jam with either one.

In decided contrast to the Italian revolvers, one of the two Pedersoli shotguns I've owned, a 10-gauge I bought from Dixie in 1990, was my best shotgun ever, Winchester M24, Fox and Ugartechea unmentionables included, both in reliability and game-getting accuracy; the second Pedersoli, a 12-gauge I bought during the pandemic, I have not yet been able to fire due to physical disability -- arthritic crippling -- that makes my 82-year-old presence too slow-moving to inflict on fellow shooters at the Tacoma Sportsmen's Club range, never mind I am a life member.

Likewise the Pedersoli Kentucky pistols I've owned, a pair of percussion models I bought from Navy Arms and shot frequently during the late '60s, were accurate, reliable and unfazed by repeated use, even with maximum charges. These days the two flintlock Pedersoli Kentucky pistols and the percussion Howdah pistol I built from kits during the pandemic quarantine appear to be perfectly functional but remain unfired for the same reason the 12-ga. Pedersoli is still virginal.

Yes the Italian screws leave much to be desired, but Track of the Wolf has excellent U.S. made replacements, though you'll need to blue or brown them yourselves.

After reading a bunch of laudatory reviews, I gambled on purchasing Uberti's percussionized model of its M1873 Colt SA from Midway, supposedly built of the same steels as its smokeless powder model. United Parcel Service slapped an indefinite hold on delivery -- here in now-fanatically-anti-gunowner Washington state, UPS apparently is allowed to "instant check" any shipment from any firearms-related dealer, which under state regulations has no time limit and now typically runs at least 30 days -- but Midway's customer service, which is among the best in the U.S., came to my rescue and stopped the hold, though the original packaging had been destructively opened and the revolver itself drenched with some sticky substance that required Ballistol to remove, as if a vengeful UPS employee had poured a soft drink on it. But after cleaning, the revolver seems perfect; timing is spot-on, trigger pull is 3.00 pounds, crisp, absolutely no creep, and the factory finish is durable enough whatever was poured on it did no damage. Though again it is unfired for the above reason.

Apart from the Pedersoli side-lock guns, I remain sold on Ruger OAs, T/C sidelocks -- over the years had Hawkens, Renegades and New Englanders (including a New Englander 12 gauge) -- and Parker-Hale artillery carbines as the best of the lot, at least within my always somewhat limited price range.

 

[William Lincoln]

I side with the "you get what you pay for adage." If you are
Taylors or Cimarron you have a personal connection and
face with the manufacturer. Also there is pride in the product
that the top importers & merchandizers bring to the offering.
Typically the top names inspect each gun--and the Italian
and Spanish makers know it. That said , any revolver can
benefit from Goons or other qualified Smith tuning up
the piece, if you want the best most reliable operation.
Especially if you might rely upon it for self defense in the
future.

 

[Crow Choker]

FWIW---- I forgot this at the time I posted my other post back on page 2, but in talking to one of the gal's at Taylor once before making a purchase, she advised me that they check all of their firearms for sale before they are shipped. Really defective ones are shipped back, others that may need a bit of tweaking are done so in house. Seems I read about the same by a former/part-time employee from Cimarron on another forum. Could be why buyers and posters claim Italian repo's bought at places like Midway/Cabela's etc seem 2nd grade, doubt if they even take em out of the boxes upon receipt. I've bought most of my cappers through Taylors and Cimarron, several private sales, the two I did buy at Cabela's and Midway were problem-less except adding some thin brass shims to the arbor.

 

[Bunk]

FWIW---- I forgot this at the time I posted my other post back on page 2, but in talking to one of the gal's at Taylor once before making a purchase, she advised me that they check all of their firearms for sale before they are shipped. Really defective ones are shipped back, others that may need a bit of tweaking are done so in house. Seems I read about the same by a former/part-time employee from Cimarron on another forum. Could be why buyers and posters claim Italian repo's bought at places like Midway/Cabela's etc seem 2nd grade, doubt if they even take em out of the boxes upon receipt. I've bought most of my cappers through Taylors and Cimarron, several private sales, the two I did buy at Cabela's and Midway were problem-less except adding some thin brass shims to the arbor.

well they sure missed my 1851 London Navy. The wedge was driven in tighter than one of Bohannon's rail road spikes.
Once apart using the loading ever lot more than I wanted there was no way to get the barrel back on with reasonable force.
Off to the smith and $140+ I have a good shooting gun,
I was not impressed.
Nice padded case though.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[Crow Choker]

Didn't say or contend they all are perfect, sad though they aren't.

 

[david w]

My Uberti works fine after I changed to Wolff springs. The OEM springs a crap.

 

[Bunk]

Also as evidenced by the Pietta nipples I wore out after only a few hundred rounds

It is even advised by Track of the Wolf to discard factory nipples and install aftermarket nipples, but then again they're in the business of selling their own.

There is or was companies making aftermarket parts for Italian cartridge revolvers for CAS shooters, some will fit cap and ballers. I have yet to see a screw kit but one may exist. I know Lodgewood sells an upgraded Pietta hammer

Much to my surprise RWS 1075 caps work on the Uberti factory firing cones even with a reduced power mainspring. The 1075's do NOT work well on Slixshot cones usually needing a second strike. I call it "damp fire" not quite dry, but not quite "wet" fire. Frustrating but fires on the second strike most of the time.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[oncewas]

Funny my new 1861 Uberti Navy that I purchased from MidwayUSA came in a Taylor box and nice cloth pouch. I also asked EMF what the difference between purchasing from them and others and she told me by email that they back their product after purchase will most others do not. So if that is important to you then may the extra $ to Cimmaron, Taylor and EMF. If not then Midway is the way to go.

 

[WSAR15]

T.they were no Taylor stamps on the gun. and on mine and some under rammer and under the trigger guard on the frame. The barrel and frame were both numbered.
After an additional $140 in gunsmith work I have a very nice usable hand gun.
The good part is it looks and work like it should now.
Respectfully
Bunk

WHo can you recommend to work on my BP Revolvers? I'd like to make them smoother.