TC cap to flint conversion

[Rawhide67]

I have a friend with a plethora of Renegades, all caplock, and some extra barrels. Since I have a lathe and bench top mill, he asked if I could mill the snail portion of the breach off a caplock, line the remaining hole running in to the chamber area, and turn it in to a flint, with a lock replacement.

The idea is to avoid pulling the caplock breachplug and fitting a flint plug.

Has anyone done this? And are the internals of TC breach plug the same, whether it’s cap or flint?

 

[bubba.50]

With enough time, effort, and possibly money l’m sure it could be done. But if he’s that loaded with excess Renegades he’d be ahead to sell a couple and buy a flinchlock.

My opinion and you’re welcome to it.

 

[Rawhide67]

He has a ton of muzzleloaders, but mainly caplocks and a couple flint fowlers. At the moment he has the one tc flint lock off my PA hunter, on a Hawken stock with an old PA hunter barrel that he acquired somewhere. Really wants a flint rifle. I even rehardened the frizzen for the project.

Then he thought of this idea after finding not one but two green mountain barrels for the renegade, both 58 cal but one is a smoothbore.

I like to putter around in my shop but wondered if the internal of the breach was the same. If so, I think I can do. If not, and someone has tried and it worked, I'm still game to try.

 

[user 48679]

Actually, I've seen how-to pics of one T/C conversion, where the owner used the original caplock bbl & patent breech, installed a flint lock in the stock, then altered the side of the patent breech from a nipple/snail to a pan/vent hole.

It will require a slight opening of then lock mortise to accommodate the factory flint lock.

In a nutshell: After the lock's installed, the side of the patent breech was ground flat, then the large spark chamber which was exposed was threaded for a large steel screw (which was installed & also cut off flush).

The vent hole was then drilled through the filler, in the proper location, to the powder chamber, and a pan added outside the breech side, below the vent hole.

He's a thread, with pics, of such a conversion:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...__picture_heavy__Movies_now_up_4_8/16-340348/

 

[BruceHH]

He can now buy a drop in flintlock barrel from Rice.

 

[Davey Boy]

Grab a barrel, measure, do a drawing for locations

If it checks out on paper, verify the machining location with a bore scope

If still a go

Dabble on and post pictures

 

[Rawhide67]

Sounds like I’m being challenged. I’ll see if he wants to follow through. I don’t know that he would want to drop the money necessary for a Rice barrel.

 

[SDSmlf]

Sounds like I’m being challenged. I’ll see if he wants to follow through. I don’t know that he would want to drop the money necessary for a Rice barrel.

Have done a few TC percussion to flint conversions with aftermarket (TOW) breech plugs. I have not removed and examined a TC flint breech plug, but the percussion plugs I removed did not have a straight shot into the ‘combustion’ chamber. They were drilled from the bore into the so called clean out hole. The aftermarket flint breech plugs I have used allowed a straight shot into the ‘combustion’ chamber, which were about 3/8” diameter if I remember correctly. Below is a photograph of a removed TC percussion breech plug. Note how the connecting hole from the percussion nipple enters the ‘combustion’ chamber. Seems a lot easier to me to just get a flint breech plug and replace the percussion one. If above your pay grade, I suggest recommending your friend find someone capable of the job. I have never been shy about letting friends know that I was not comfortable doing a project for them that was something that I was not set up to do. If you mess up your friend’s barrel, he may not be a friend long term. Just my opinion.

 

[Rawhide67]

I'm not sure if it's above my pay grade, haven't tried it yet. But, gotta learn at some point.

It does look like the inside of the percussion plug would not be conducive to a flint set up, without some modification.

 

[SDSmlf]

I'm not sure if it's above my pay grade, haven't tried it yet. But, gotta learn at some point.

It does look like the inside of the percussion plug would not be conducive to a flint set up, without some modification.

In my opinion, based on what I have seen, best to remove breech plug and replace with flint plug if you want to make conversion. Not that difficult and done almost every day. Honestly, wouldn’t try to modify someone else’s barrel’s percussion breech plug, but may try on my on an barrel just to see how it works out, but have serious doubts.

 

[Davey Boy]

Actually, I've seen how-to pics of one T/C conversion, where the owner used the original caplock bbl & patent breech, installed a flint lock in the stock, then altered the side of the patent breech from a nipple/snail to a pan/vent hole.

It will require a slight opening of then lock mortise to accommodate the factory flint lock.

In a nutshell: After the lock's installed, the side of the patent breech was ground flat, then the large spark chamber which was exposed was threaded for a large steel screw (which was installed & also cut off flush).

The vent hole was then drilled through the filler, in the proper location, to the powder chamber, and a pan added outside the breech side, below the vent hole.

He's a thread, with pics, of such a conversion:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...__picture_heavy__Movies_now_up_4_8/16-340348/

So a conversion has been done, documented.

You could get rid of the hooked tang design and make it into a cool tang design.

Put together a really awesome flintlock

Do it !

 

[Rawhide67]

I'm game for whatever he wants done. Worst thing I can do is booger up a breach plug. They make replacements.

I'm kind of interested just to see if it can be done. I will definitely update this thread when he decides what to do.

 

[waarp8nt]

Have done a few TC percussion to flint conversions with aftermarket (TOW) breech plugs. I have not removed and examined a TC flint breech plug, but the percussion plugs I removed did not have a straight shot into the ‘combustion’ chamber. They were drilled from the bore into the so called clean out hole. The aftermarket flint breech plugs I have used allowed a straight shot into the ‘combustion’ chamber, which were about 3/8” diameter if I remember correctly. Below is a photograph of a removed TC percussion breech plug. Note how the connecting hole from the percussion nipple enters the ‘combustion’ chamber. Seems a lot easier to me to just get a flint breech plug and replace the percussion one.

I can confirm this statement. You would likely have alignment issues with the flintlock pan to flash hole as the caplock breech plug doesn't go straight to the powder anti-chamber, but much more of an angle than a flintlock breech plug. I also agree get a Track of the Wolf flintlock breech plug, they are only $35 and are readily available. If the caplock breech conversion ends up being a failure and I'm nearly certain it will do to the angle between the nipple and anti-chamber not properly aligning with the flintlock pan (not necessarily a failure on your skill level) Keep in mind the caplock breech plugs are often out of stock and previously were on back order for 2 plus years.

Also, there is a good chance you would have to plug and re-drill the machined / altered caplock breech plug as existing flash hole may be excessive in size. I seriously doubt you would be able to install a flash hole liner on the machined / altered caplock breech plug. In my experience using the Track of the Wolf breech plugs, installing a vent liner greatly improves ignition of the flintlock. My experience has been 2 or 3 shots before the flashole plugs using the smallest recommending drill bit alone, however installing a 1/4 by 28 flash hole liner improves ignition to 15 to 18 shots before a misfire. This improvement comes even while not cleaning between shots, I simply loaded and pushed the crud into the bore.

Not saying the caplock conversion cannot be done, however I believe you would have a much cleaner job by going with the Track of the Wolf flintlock breech plug. Then you can use a flintlock lock from Thompson Center, Lyman or L&R. However, if buying a new flintock (they are pricey), then bubba.50 idea would likely be best, sell a couple of caplocks and buy a used flintlock rifle.

A bit of advice on the machine work if going with a Track of the Wolf flintlock breech plug. You must make sure your breech plug times out properly with the sights, and the shoulders of the threads (internal/external) and breech plug match up and essentially touch at the same time. Not a horrible job to accomplish, but somewhat more difficult than installing a breech plug on a new barrel without sight dovetails cut.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

With enough time, effort, and possibly money l’m sure it could be done. But if he’s that loaded with excess Renegades he’d be ahead to sell a couple and buy a flinchlock.
My opinion and you’re welcome to it.

Ha ha, that is what some of my fellow muzzleloaders call em. Seriously, a main reason a non seasoned flint shooter flinches, is because his lock is not giving consistent good ignition. The anticipation of not knowing if it going to go bang or not is what causes it.
Thanks for the smile.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Once again we see the application of theory. Yes, in theory the conversion of a T/C breech from percussion to flint can be done. It can be done in practice as well. Its just not as easy as it would be to replace the percussion breech plug with a flint plug.

 

[Rawhide67]

All good input, and while I’ve never fitted a breach plug I’ve done other, similar things. I guess it will depend on how badly he wants a large bore flintlock from one of his percussion barrels.

 

[Pete G]

There are a lot better ways of getting a flintlock...

 

[user 48679]

With enough time, effort, and possibly money l’m sure it could be done. But if he’s that loaded with excess Renegades he’d be ahead to sell a couple and buy a flinchlock.

My opinion and you’re welcome to it.

No disrespect, but sometimes it's not all about money/cost.

Some folks like to make their own unique objects ILO just buying what most others folks have.

Besides that, there's also great personal satisfaction out of making whatever with your own hands - a considerable benefit.

 

[SDSmlf]

The OP was about converting a TC percussion to flint WITHOUT pulling the breech plug. Just not a practical approach if someone is looking for a reliable flintlock after the conversation is done, at least in my opinion.

The idea is to avoid pulling the caplock breachplug and fitting a flint plug.

 

[bubba.50]

No disrespect, but sometimes it's not all about money/cost.

Some folks like to make their own unique objects ILO just buying what most others folks have.

Besides that, there's also great personal satisfaction out of making whatever with your own hands - a considerable benefit.

No offense taken. I like to tinker and make my own stuff too. Just never saw the benefit of doin’ 2 or 3 hundred dollars worth of work to save 30 bucks and then possibly havin’ to do it over again anyway.