Tc

[bubba.50]

I'm lefty and traded for .50 T/C flint RIGHT hand in '83. Still have it.
Always said I'd get a lefty.
Couple months ago I finally found a .58 Investarms percussion LEFTY.
Sure feels weird.......

Except for the 'flinchlock' part I'm the same way. So left-handed I can't pick my nose righty but all my TC's are right hand. A few years ago I finally found a left-hand Renegade at a good price & thought I'd treat myself. It just felt so unnatural and awkward & never could get used to it. So it went down the road & never had the desire for a lefty gun since.

 

[bud in pa]

The TC 50 cal cap lock got me started shooting bp. Never took a deer with it but plenty of squirrels.

 

[nhmoose]

What hate? please explain. TC's sell fast on this forums sales forums. That tells me Likes.

 

[Springerpanhead]

IMO, the big problem was that TC took a patent on the word "Hawken". The firearms they made did not have more than a passing similarity to the J&S Hawken rifles.

Personally, I like that the TC rifles and pistols are so different. It means no one will be able to hump one and claim is was an antique.

The use of coil springs is another reason.

You can’t patent a word, you can copyright one.

 

[Springerpanhead]

CVA…

When CVA left the Connecticut Valley the employees that didn’t want to move with the company formed Traditions.. Same imports, same quality.

 

[Stony Broke]

I have had many TC's over the years, but just gave away my last Hawken yesterday. A friend is a very active person with modern ammo, but has never used ML's before. I took him to a match a week ago and he had a real good time. One friend showed him how to load one and had him shooting and loading a couple himself with a TC Hawken. I gave him the rifle, range rod and various accessories along with a pound of Goex 3f to get him going.
I think he will be joining the club and getting really involved in no time...he met a bunch of very friendly folks at the club shoot that will be happy to help him along.

 

[user 34300]

Not a hater, but not a fanboy either.

TC made a price point gun with cast parts, a button barrel, non HC styling and modern construction details. The stocks had too little drop and bruise your cheek, This was done to economize on wood, not make a good rifle. The later ones were junk, put together with hot glue and sloppy work.

The original flintlocks were junk, they did not work properly and ate flints. I would say the early flintlocks were dangerous. The fact that misfires were the rule rather than the exception makes them bad news. I owned one, I am not speculating.

But, most of them worked fine. If a guy does not care about styling or build quality they are OK. The cap locks are reliable. As far as the mass market price point guns go they are better than Investarms, CVA, Traditions and Lyman. They are also nicer than a lot of rifles assembled by hobby builders of parts sets. From a functional standpoint I'd rather have a TC cap lock than the cast part wonders we commonly see for under $200.

No judgement, whatever works for a guy is good. We need all the participants in the hobby we can get.

TC did it right from a sales point of view. They hit the sweet spot on price vs functionality at a time when the ML sport was popular.

 

[Dibbuk]

You can’t patent a word, you can copyright one.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[B P Arn]

Not a hater, but not a fanboy either.

TC made a price point gun with cast parts, a button barrel, non HC styling and modern construction details. The stocks had too little drop and bruise your cheek, This was done to economize on wood, not make a good rifle. The later ones were junk, put together with hot glue and sloppy work.

The original flintlocks were junk, they did not work properly and ate flints. I would say the early flintlocks were dangerous. The fact that misfires were the rule rather than the exception makes them bad news. I owned one, I am not speculating.

But, most of them worked fine. If a guy does not care about styling or build quality they are OK. The cap locks are reliable. As far as the mass market price point guns go they are better than Investarms, CVA, Traditions and Lyman. They are also nicer than a lot of rifles assembled by hobby builders of parts sets. From a functional standpoint I'd rather have a TC cap lock than the cast part wonders we commonly see for under $200.

No judgement, whatever works for a guy is good. We need all the participants in the hobby we can get.

TC did it right from a sales point of view. They hit the sweet spot on price vs functionality at a time when the ML sport was popular.

What do you mean by a "price point" gun? I have never heard that term before.

 

[Griz44Mag]

What do you mean by a "price point" gun? I have never heard that term before.

LOL - He (SCOTA-DIBBUK and company) admitted self appointed experts - they can make up whatever term he wants - And YOU do not have the authority to EVER question his judgment.
ME? - I own and shoot a huge variety of guns, and that includes TC - and I like them - and just because somebody has an opinion that differs from mine - does not change my opinion - ANY.
So I will continue - unabated - enjoying my TC - Lyman - Pedersoli - Numrich - CVA - Traditions - Pietta - assorted customs - many unmentionables - Dodge - Mazda - Masterbuilt - etc......
Haters be haters - that is not my problem - it is theirs.....

 

[Dale Lilly]

My wife of ten years now bought me a kit built TV Hawken .45. It is exceptional, beautiful wood, nicely browned and totally functional [I did not build it] I have never owned one before but wish I had. I have two CVA mountain rifles [one is also beautiful figured maple and totally pleasant]. I also transformed an older CVA Hawken into a reasonable facsimile of a J & S Hawken [not the traditional Hawken we usually picture]. I also have other more expensive guns and I like 'em all. My favorite deer gun, when I was able to hunt, was a GPR [sold it and built another last year]. I don't want to steal the maniac's name [or expertise] but I guess I am a black powder *****. My step son-in-law calls me the king of bp. I am not, but I may be the king of BP admirers ... all sorts. Polecat

 

[French Colonial]

LOL - He (SCOTA-DIBBUK and company) admitted self appointed experts - they can make up whatever term he wants - And YOU do not have the authority to EVER question his judgment.
ME? - I own and shoot a huge variety of guns, and that includes TC - and I like them - and just because somebody has an opinion that differs from mine - does not change my opinion - ANY.
So I will continue - unabated - enjoying my TC - Lyman - Pedersoli - Numrich - CVA - Traditions - Pietta - assorted customs - many unmentionables - Dodge - Mazda - Masterbuilt - etc......
Haters be haters - that is not my problem - it is theirs.....

Building to a "price point" means you know what it will take price wise to sell a product and you build the product to hit that price.

If you know that a Thompson Center sells for "X" and you are going to build a copy of it you can not sell it for twice that much, if you can you build it to sell for $100.00 less it will sell, and you build to that price...that's your price point.

Manufacturers that plan to build anything that already has an established market (read competitors) must assess their cost of doing business before building so they do not end up with a similar product over priced for the market.

 

[user 34300]

It always find it amusing when someone who is ignorant mocks someone who is not. It tells me a lot about that person.

 

[B P Arn]

I find it amusing when people have a much higher view of their own intelligence than what is actually warranted.

 

[bubba.50]

A lot of the gripe about TC's concerns them being 'cheek slappers' and this is unjustly attributed to the comb. You can see from my pik I got a fat head and my Hawken suits me to a tee. But I shoot right-handed guns left-handed. the problem is not so much the comb as it is that infernal bulbous-*** "cheekrest". Shoot your gun lefty a few times then you'll see. Of course, it may make ya wanta take a belt sander to your stock......

 

[user 34300]

Ignorance means lack of knowledge
Knowing things does not prove intelligence.
Refusal to learn new things is just being stubborn.

I gave an honest assessment of what the TC Hawken was based on facts. IF somebody disagrees that is great. Please support your position.

That is called a conversion. A conversation is a good way to learn new things. It is OK to disagree with someone. Making personal attacks against some one because you disagree with them is childish. It proves that one's position can not be supported with facts.

 

[LME]

I find it amusing when people have a much higher view of their own intelligence than what is actually warranted.

At least you were not referring to me? If my I.Q. was one point lower I would be a plant!

 

[B P Arn]

At least you were not referring to me? If my I.Q. was one point lower I would be a plant!

LOL! Same here!

 

[BrantWW]

If a guy does not care about styling or build quality they are OK.

They hit the sweet spot on price vs functionality at a time when the ML sport was popular.

Most folk can't handle it when others express their opinions strongly with conviction as you have here.

Two points I'd like to make.

In the early 1970s muzzleloaders saw an unprecedented rise in popularity because of the Bicentennial and a couple of now classic movies and TV shows.

TC had the vision to recognize an opportunity that no other US maker or manufacturer seized.

I contend that TC actually created a mass market that hadn't existed. Sure a few companies were flogging kits and subpar imports. But it was TC that fulfilled the demand (or did they create it) for Made in USA black powder rifles that were readily available, solid, worked, pleased the non-expert eye, and were easy to maintain. To top it off, TC rifles were backed by a warranty and customer service that to this day remains unsurpassed in the blackpowder shooting world.

To fairly evaluate TC sidelocks, I feel one should look at the company's impact and legacy.

TC introduced muzzleloading to more people in just a few years than at any time since smokeless powder and cartridge guns became the norm. I daresay the vast majority of members on this forum have fond memories of TC smokepoles. Thus, we are emotional about our TC sidelocks. From 1958 to 1965 I played with toy flintlocks like the one I saw Fess Parker carry on TV. In those tender years I roamed the woods of East Tennessee wearing a Davy Crocket **** hat, ever viligant for roving bands of bloodthirsty redskins (slaying them without mercy when discovered).

Imagine my awe just a few years later when I saw a TC Hawken in a gun store. I immediately spent the money meant for my meal plan at the University of Tennessee. Eventhough I was hungry all quarter, every weekend I was on the gun range at Norris, TN shooting ball after ball.

Finally, I agree with you that compared to other production sidelocks available from the early 1970s through the early 1990's, TC ruled.

Yes, TC flintlocks (that sold for less than $200) had serious issues, but one must ask what other company made rifles to satisfy the need for flintlocks in states that required them for deer hunting?

I would go so far as to say that if not for TC this forum might not exist.

 

[nkbj]

This is the next thing I want to try in the left hand New Englander.
I know I don't know how to make it work so learning that'll be lagniappe.