Tested 255grn Maxi-Hunters in 1:48" barrel

[roundball]

Tested a standard barrel TC Hawken flinter this morning with 255grn Maxi-Hunters, and it's like the barrel was designed specifically for it !

90grns Goex FFg, very tight groups at 50yds, used TC 4-N-1 Quick Shots to load the little conicals perfectly straight, groups were very tight at 50yds with holes touching and/or overlapping.

Beautiful morning...got there right after first light, cool in the 40's, not another soul around, saw a couple Deer, etc...

 

[Stumpkiller]

My T/C New Englander in .50 cal groups the 350gr Maxi-Hunters much better than round balls (At 50 yds I can occasionally cloverleaf three shots in the X - thats as good as it gets for me). My .54 Renegade, with the same 1:48" twist, shoots both Maxi-Hunters and RB very well. So, when I carry the New Englander it has a Maxi-Hunter in it. It's my late season deer gun because the huge triggerguard and single trigger allow bulky gloves. I use round balls in my other muzzleloaders.

Used to have a little .36 Seneca that wanted a diet of Maxi-Balls. Made a great woodchuck & coyote gun.

 

[JerryToth]

Hi Roundball;

I have a T/C White Mountain Carbine with a very short barrel, (I think it's about 21"), and a very fast twist... it's 1 in 32 or thereabouts. If you want to see a barrel designed for maxiball or maxihunter, you should see this one! I've also had very good results with the Hornady "PA conicals" in this rifle.

I also have a T/C New Englander with a 26" barrel and 1:48 twist. It does well with the maxi's.

There are three problems that I've found with the Maxi's. Maybe my several years of tinkering with them can help somebody out.

First, they cost too darn much.

Second, they are quite a bit slower than a roundball so you have to shoot enough that you memorize your trajectories.

Third, and I don't know if this is just my experience, but my first shot of the day will impact several inches higher than subsequent shots. At 50 or 75 yards, I'm 3" or 4" higher, so if I want to make a low heart shot at a broadside deer, I have to aim at the bottom edge of the deer... this is kinda hard to force myself to do!

Anyway, be sure to work with the Maxi's enough to ascertain whether your rifle shoots the first of the day high or not. It's kinda difficult to do this since you only get one "first shot" every trip to the range!

Regards to all,

Ironsights Jerry.

 

There is a phenomona called "the fouling shot". Generally, the first shot from a clean barrel will not print with the rest of the group. This is a fact of life with black powder, whether it be a muzzleloader or a BPCR rifle. From my experience and the experience of others I shoot with a "fouling shot" is best taken before hunting or a match. I always "foul the barrel/s" before either. From my experience it just makes good sense. Others correct me if I'm mistaken.....but I ain't gonna change!

Vic

 

[roundball]

I don't think what any individual does is a mistake, it's just a choice depending on what/why you're shooting...
For me, my interest is different...it's always for first shot accuracy out of a clean cold barrel for hunting and that's how I sight in my rifles...

 

While many people do foul their barrels prior to serious hunting, There are just as many who don't. There are merits in both approaches.
: Conical bullets usually give much more difference between fouling and fouled shots than do round balls.
: With round ball, I've not found a different sighting needs to be taken as my barrel is cleaned when loading the next round. Literally, all of my shots are taken with a clean barrel, so to speak. The ctg. guns, like the 50-70 Sharps, puts the first shot some 2" low at 100yds. This is not enough to cause to worry about the 'fouler'. I can see where 4 or 5 inches could be worrysome, but practise and knowing how to hold for that first shot is a simple matter.
: Many of the double guns of the 19th century didn't put the shots together at any range, so the shooter sighted the best barrel for the first shot and learned where to hold for the 'bad' barrel. Many of them did wonderful shooting to 150yds. even, in competition, on bets, etc, against single barrel guns & several of these are well documented in history as laid out in Firearms of the American West, 1803 to 1865". Even Forsyth, in his wonderful little book, said while he possessed many different double guns, he'd only had 2 which shot paralell. Sighting differently and holding off was a way of life.
: The .69 rifle I had always put the first shot into the group at 100yds. I haven't testd at 100yds. with the .45, but see no reason from my 50yd. shooting, to be suspect of elevation change between fouler and fouled.
Daryl

 

"Firearms of the American West".....which one? Joseph G. Rosa, Ian Hogg or a fella by the name of Gavaglia or Garavaglia, I believe? (I have all of them). The Rosa and Hogg book are both full of inconsistencies, rumor and myth.....and I believe Garavaglia's is too, altho his is probably the best of the lot. Some of the things attributed to gun handlers and models of handguns in the first two mentioned books are quite preposterous. Just another frustration of not having access to my library......doggone it!!!

Vic

 

This "phenomena" of the fouling shot is but one more reason I swab between shots. My first shot at game is going to be from a clean bore, so I sight in with a clean bore and swab between shots to ensure consistancy.
And Daryl is quite right. The r/b is not affected nearly so much by a fouled bore as are conicals.

 

[JerryToth]

Hi all;

As regards the "fouling shot", I see a couple of ways to look at it.

First, once the barrel, (and the flashpan) is fouled, it's a bit more trouble to keep it from drawing moisture on those foggy, damp, autumn days. With a clean barrel, (and flashpan), it's easier to keep things dry.

Second, if you don't foul, and don't get a shot all day, you don't have to clean that night. Just leave the rifle out in the unheated garage.

Third, my rifle shoots different for the first shot with Maxi's versus subsequent shots with Maxi's. However, the first shots are consistent. They are always exactly the same amount higher in impact. So since I'm only shooting one shot per deer, what do I care? Then the two factors above have merit, to me at least.

Like the other fellows said, to each his own! One of the many marvelous things about BP shooting is that there are so many ways to do different things. It keeps things interesting!

Regards to all,

Ironsights Jerry.

 

[Deadeye]

On the subject of fouling shots. Maybe, if your going for the world championship on paper targets it MIGHT make the difference between an X and a 10 but in my hunting guns or match guns with balls or bullets I don't see any difference.
I don't usually do it even when I'm shooting matches.
I took my newly built Issac Haines rifle out last weekend,
shot 70 shots without cleaning or wiping between shots,
without cleaning the touchhole, without knapping the flint,
without brushing the pan or wiping the frizzen. Never had a flash in the pan or a missfire. Just load and shoot and the last shot was as accurate as the first. No, I don't usually do that but did just to see how long it would function. I was shooting groups every 25 yds. from 25 to 200 yds. The flint was still sparking but was not looking good so I knapped it after the 70 shots and it's still sparking. That's a lot of shots for one flint, be interesting to see how long the next one lasts.

 

[roundball]

Deadeye, I'm glad to see you posted this...I had the same reaction to this thread but checked myself for fear some would think I was way off base.
I don't know if it's because my barrels live in a world of Natural Lube 1000 and Goex or what, but I don't have the "first shot / Following shots" variances some have posted about here, regardless of whether I'm shooting TC Maxi-Hunters, Hornady GP bullets, or PRB's.
I do 99% of my practice at 50yds so maybe I don't see it at that distance?...dunno...but at 50yds, I never even think about such a thing as having two different sets of POI's

 

[flm_shooter]

At our intro shoot last weekend I fired approx 70 shots. One wet patch swabbed after every three shots. The flint stood up just fine, with minimal knapping. The bore eventually developed a heavy ridge of fouling right at the bottom. This ridge caught my cleaning patches,eventually sticking the rod in the barrel. Geneous amounts of 3 Rivers lube poured down the barrel freed the patch. After a few dry patches and one or two wet "ffffft" shots, I was back in business. This was using a mix of Goex 3F and Swiss (whatever was donated).

 

The PROBLEM with cleaning between shots is that of sticking a patch in the barrel from not being wet enough. If it's wet enough so it doens't 'grab' in the fouling, it might leave moisture in the breech and therefore foul the powder and misfire for that all-important shot at a deer of moose, elk, bear, etc.
: Nope - for me - no foulers, no cleaning until I'm finished for the day IF I've fired the rifle. My .69 Rifle was loaded with 165gr. 2F & bear oil lubed, patched 464gr. WW ball for 1-1/2 months and when I finally touched it off, it went through the moose in the middle of the chest, taking the aorta off the top of the heart and doubling the lungs with a 5" tubuar hole - right on the sights, and went off instantly without hanging fire. Gotta love it! Would have been better had it been a flinter, but that was before I sitched to flint.
Daryl