Texas Rising

[satx78247]

INTERESTING. = THANKS for the link.
(Of course us fanatic "ORANGEBLOODS" tend to "discount", if not outright "dismiss", anything that comes out of "aggieland", as foolishness & "semi-edumakated".)

CHUCKLE, satx

 

[eggwelder]

for what its worth, I have little knowledge of the events surrounding the storyline portrayed in the show. My wife and i lasted about an hour into the show, and my only thought was that, with the exception of the obvious blood and violence, it reminded me of Sunday evening Disney movies back in the `70s and early `80s, complete with background music. the acting talent is there, but i think the directors missed the boat. my $0.05. (we don't have pennies up here anymore)

 

[satx78247]

UNDERSTOOD.

I keep hoping that somebody will do the story of our TX Revolution CORRECTLY, as the TRUTH is better & much MORE INTERESTING than the MYTH.

just my OPINION, satx

 

[RonRC]

I would like to publicly thank satx78247 for taking the time and effort to supply the historical information on Texas. I certainly learned much more from him that I did from the TV show!
Ron

 

[satx78247]

WOW! - Is that ever "damning with faint praise", as there are FEW FACTS & FAR LESS reality in the mini-series.
(RotflmRao.)

Nonetheless, "Thanks for the flowers".

yours, satx

 

[shmrck1]

:thumbsup:
snake-eyes

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Wow! You are a wealth of knowledge! I have to admit I forced myself to watch the first two episodes of the program. I actually did not like it. I thought the acting was poor, the story line a bit far fetched, and felt it was a waste of time. It reminded me of video game villains and good guys. My kids used to play those games and it would drive me crazy.

But now with the information you have provided I will look at the series with a better understanding. Hopefully the acting will get better. Thanks for taking your time to educate me. :hatsoff:

 

[Artificer]

I would like to publicly thank satx78247 for taking the time and effort to supply the historical information on Texas. I certainly learned much more from him that I did from the TV show!
Ron

X a Bunch as well. :hatsoff:

SATX
I went looking for information on the Tsalagi Nvdagi after reading your information in this thread. What I have not been able to figure out is how to pronounce it. Is it rude to ask how to pronounce it phonetically?

Also, did your people originally come from Arkansas?

Gus

 

[satx78247]

The longer that I think about it, the more that I think that after I finish writing SONS OF BLOOD & DAUGHTERS OF FIRE (which I HOPE gets sold as a TV mini-series about a full-fledged 2nd CIVIL WAR in the USA & set in 2020-2025AD, in 2016 or 2017.), I just may start working on writing a TV mini-series script on The Texas Revolution, which will tell the REAL story. - As I said, the REAL Texas-Coahuila Revolution is vastly more interesting than the "phony-baloney war"/MYTH that is usually told in movies/taught in public schools.
(I'm just not sure that I'm a good enough writer to tell OUR TX FREEDOM STORY properly.)

I think that it will take about six or seven nights, of two hours episodes, to do it RIGHT, as the TRUE story of the patriots of Texas & Coahuila fight against The Dictator/GEN Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna is that multi-faceted & that interesting.

just my OPINION, satx

 

[satx78247]

"SAH-la-ghee NAV-da-gee" is as close as I can come.= I'm far from good enough to be an expert on describing the exact pronunciation of NA words, as I don't know how to show "tonal accents".

Our people in early 1818 came to New Spain mostly from the northern border area between AL & GA, with 10-20 families coming down from southern TN & a few "joining the migration" from eastern MS.
(About 800 extended families, with their herds & flocks started THE LONG WALK & about 750 families arrived in Nacogdoches in late 1818 & early 1819.- Some families "went back" & others stayed in western LA, settling in Caddo Parish.)

Note: It took some family groups a YEAR to walk to New Spain because, sheep/swine/ducks/geese walk SLOW & all the people & livestock had to stop to graze & rest frequently. =====> I have often thought that THE LONG WALK must have looked like "a giant traveling sideshow", with some groups being better/worse organized, some faster, some slower, etc.= I believe that the head & the trail of the "line of march" was likely over 20 miles.

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

To ALL,

In case anyone is wondering WHY our people "migrated" to New Spain.

The reason is that the GEORGIA PONY CLUBS & the US ARMY were PRESECUTING them mercilessly.
(The "war cry" of the Georgia Pony Clubs was: NO DOG, NO PIG, NO INJUN IN GEORGIA.)

As my dad said, "Fleeing our homes & farms for Texas wasn't a brave thing; it was a smart thing."

yours, satx

 

[Artificer]

"SAH-la-ghee NAV-da-gee" is as close as I can come.= I'm far from good enough to be an expert on describing the exact pronunciation of NA words, as I don't know how to show "tonal accents".

yours, satx

Thank you. Boy my guess was WAY OFF. Grin.

BTW a full blood Tennessee Cherokee (I'm sorry I never asked him what nation he was) was hugely instrumental in Marine Corps Marksmanship for almost 40 years. First as a Shooter and especially as a 1,000 yard shooter, then as a Coach who could read wind like few other people alive and then running our Test Rack facility after he retired. MSgt Tommy "R." (since I don't have permission to use his full/real name) was a huge boon to us.

Gus

 

[satx78247]

I'm fairly sure that I know who the Marine MSG that you are talking about IS, though I've NOT met him. = The number of fullbloods today is a "relatively small number" & the number of retired Marine MSGs, who are fullbloods, is much smaller yet.

Btw, did you note that one of the Harlem Tigers, late of the NYARNG, received the MOH, posthumously, this week?

yours, satx

 

[thecapgunkid]

I had a tough time getting into this, picking up on it through Apple TV during some insomnia as we unpacked in our new home in PA.

Shouldn't Ray Liotta have Joe Pesci with him for all that barbarity?

What's the which and why of having that naive family show up, buy land and get wiped out by the Comanches?

The dialogue seems to have most of the characters always yelling and whooping it up to the point of distraction....wasn't anybody in Texas quiet and thoughtful? Over on TURN they whisper so much I gotta watch it twice just to figure out what the deuce they are talking about. Do any of these young actors study their characters and the history enough to know how to act in a Western?

Talk about being old and not fitting in with modern society....I ain't dead yet but I can see it from here... Time for the Magnificent Seven or The Searchers.

 

[satx78247]

A few comments on your comments:
1. There was LITTLE "quiet contemplation" during our Revolution, as it was CHAOS,
2. The immigrant family that were wiped out by a Comanche Murder Raid, happened REPEATEDLY.
(Even the other NA despised the Comanches.)
3. Despite the FACT that the "scenery" looks NOTHING like the Texas Coastal Plains, the battle scenes of San Jacinto were pretty much what REALLY happened. - Imo, even THE GREAT KILLING that occurred after the main 21 minutes of the battle was (for the first time in my memory) reported.

We Texicans generally don't like to talk about THE GREAT KILLING that went on & on for THREE DAYS but it DID happen & it was extremely UGLY.
Perhaps THREE QUARTERS of the Mexican casualties were unarmed at the time of their wounding/death, numerous POWs were killed after they surrendered & many more Mexicans were "hunted down in the Bayous" & "shot out of hand". = THE GREAT KILLING was when the piteous cry of , "Me NO Alamo, me NO Goliad" was frequently heard.
Nonetheless, the killing went on & on.
(Some period sources indicate that the killing went on for a WEEK.)

Readers should note that ATROCITY in war ALWAYS breeds COUNTER-ATROCITIES. =======> After the massacre at the Alamo and particularly after the SENSELESS SLAUGHTER of the helpless Texas POWs at Goliad, the chance that ANY person in Mexican uniform would be "humanely treated" evaporated.

Given the RIGHTEOUS ANGER of the Texas Army, what IS surprising is that ALL of the Mexicans were NOT shot by firing squad/hanged. - Had it NOT been for the constantly orders of CPT Juan Seguin, GEN Houston, the "pleas for mercy" by clergy who served with the Army & the "calming voices" of a few other Texas officers/soldiers, I believe that there would have been a WORSE vengeance visited upon the Mexican Army.

yours, satx

 

[Snakebite]

satx,

I haven't read a lot about the Battle of San Jacinto, some though, but have never heard about "The Great Killing". I'd like to read more about it, can you supply any references? I've checked a couple of the San Jacinto Battle websites, but none there. I've checked tamu.edu, history.com, Texas State Library and Archives, but no luck.

Thanks,
Snakebite

 

[Artificer]

Though it made "great theatre" when they blew up the bridge, I could not help but just shake my head at the size and structure of that bridge. That bridge could have been a much later railroad bridge, had it had tracks on it. Was the original bridge THAT big? The admittedly limited reading I’ve done seemed to suggest it was a much smaller bridge.

I also thought the depicted battle strayed way off the actual battle. Why did they depict a stream/small river between the Texicans/Tejanos and the Mexican Army? Have to admit I did not understand so many of the troops advancing through the woods in the TV depiction. Maps of the original battle show a flanking movement by Sherman’s Volunteers through the woods on the left and some woods that helped screen Lamar’s Cavalry on the right. But most of the Texican/Tejano battle line advanced over open ground and was screened by a rise between them and the Mexican Army, until they got fairly close to the Mexican Army.

For those confused by the TV depicted battle like I was, here is a pretty good map one can enlarge and look at the actual deployment of troops and geography during the battle. http://www.mastermason.com/hempstead749/sanjac2.htm
Gus

 

[Billnpatti]

There are a lot of good books and original memoirs that describe what has become to be known by some as The Great Killing. I personally have not seen that term before but I know what they are talking about. The history books and memoirs of people who were there tell about how the Texans pursued the fleeing Mexicans and kept firing and killing long after Gen. Houston had called for a cease fire. I am of the impression that the killing did not last as long as some suggest. True, there were some Mexican soldiers who were killed a matter of days after the battle but I don't have the impression that it was a continuous slaughter. Rather it was a few stragglers who were attempting to escape. I imagine that some were killed even while they were attempting to surrender. But the greatest part of the killing continued on through the day of the battle. Many Mexicans were killed as they attempted to swim across Peggy Lake. The enraged Texans stood on the shore and picked off the bobbing heads of the fleeing Mexican soldiers. It was there that it is told that General Houston was trying, with not too much success, to stop the Texans from killing any more Mexicans. He is reported to have shouted "Gentlemen, gentlemen, I admire your spirit but damn your manners." or words to that effect. I am not sure of how historically correct this quote is but it seems to linger in the history books.

At any rate, from what I have read, the greatest amount of killing took place on the day of the battle and only a relative few soldiers were killed in the following days. Given the way the Texans had been treated by Santa Anna at Goliad and at The Alamo and all during Texas fight for independence, is it any wonder that those Texans at San Jacinto were out for revenge? It is only fair if we look at "The Great Killing" through the eyes of the men who were there and not through politically correct eyes from our comfortable armchairs some 179 years later.

I've had my say.

 

[Billnpatti]

This reference refers to the killing lasting long after the end of the battle but still seems to infer that most, of not all, occurred on the day of the battle.

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/treasures/republic/san-jacinto.html

This piece from Texas A&M University supports teh idea that the killing occurred on the day and evening of the battle.
http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/batsanjacinto.htm

 

[Snakebite]

Bill, that's what I understood. Most of the killing was done as the Mexicans tried to escape thru the river and were caught there. I seem to have read somewhere that Sam Houston (among some of the others) rode up and down the banks trying to stop the killing. I could be wrong, but that's the way I seem to remember it.