Texas Rising

[satx78247]

The "NOT History Channel" didn't even get our flags RIGHT. = How difficult is that to learn???

As I said, the ONLY positive thing is that it will bring loads of out-of-state folks here & just PERHAPS they will learn our REAL story, once they arrive.

yours, satx

 

[bubba.50]

I see that Santa Ana was "trending" on the interweb today so, maybe if nothin' else it will inspire a few people to try to learn a bit of actual history.

 

[satx78247]

We can HOPE.

yours, satx

 

[Rick Boylan]

Actually, lately, I've chosen just that. I used to love the History channel. Old west tech was one of my favorite shows. I love history and in its early days the History channel was good. But lately it's devolved into Pawn stars, American Pickers, etc and is just not history.

:td: :slap: :barf:

On National Geographic the other night I watched a show about Colt and Smith and Wesson. They showed how Colt came up with the revolver and how S&W developed the cartridge guns. But the shows researchers did a terrible job on some of the props. In one scene they showed the Texas Rangers going up against members of the Mexican army. One of the Rangers was using a Henry rifle while the entire Mexican army was also using Henry rifles. Now, understand, this was about the time Colt made the Paterson revolver and was supposedly pre civil war. So I doubt that they had Henry rifles.

Also, later in the show they showed how S&W were developing the S&W #1 at the start of their career. In the scenes the guys working for Smith and Wesson were building Winchester 1866 rifles on a bench. I started telling the tv that this was crazy and my wife told me to shut up. :slap:

How hard can it be for these shows to just do a little research and get things right?

:shake:

 

[satx78247]

The FACT that JOHN WAYNE westerns & most other "shoot-em-ups" are NOT HC doesn't keep me from enjoying them.

yours, satx

 

[Rick Boylan]

Me either.

But it does bother me a bit when I see such things on a channel named History. Or when I see them on National Geographic and presenting themselves as history. When they are trying to present themselves as history and not just entertainment, then I think they should be held to a higher standard.

I find it disappointing that they don't just do a little more research and present a better product.

 

[satx78247]

MAYBE if enough "history folks" complain bitterly enough, they will BUY my "new project" on our Revolution, when/if I do it.
I promise that that projected mini-series will be as PC/HC as I can make it, as the TRUTH is WAY better/more interesting than TEXAS RISING.

yours, satx

 

[user 20224]

Having worked on quite a few projects for Ted Turner, History Channel, Gary Foreman and others there are several reasons for the lack of historical correctness. The first is safety, like equipment used by the stunt people. The last thing that you want to do is take a fall with real period correct weapons or horse gear. Next is the attitude of the wranglers who use what they have, 50's saddles and gear. The last and most important are the directors who worry about following the script and staying under budget. Good authentic wardrobe and weapons are expensive and hard to rent.
Actors frequently have an uninformed opinion or just are not comfortable doing the shot with correct weapons. A good example of this is in "Crazy Horse" when he charges Custer at Little Bighorn watch his Rubber barreled 1866 flop back and forth.
The last reason is the most important in my opinion, there are not enough of US who know the difference.

 

[satx78247]

To a degree, I agree with you. Nonetheless, I can see NO legitimate reason to make a movie/miniseries about South & Southeast Texas in the Winter & Spring of the coldest/wettest 12 months in Texas history in a desert area. = The area south of San Antonio and east to LaPorte, where the major part of our Revolution occurred, were coastal plains, sloughs, creeks, rivers, swamps, bayous, etc.
(I'd bet that in 30 days or less that I could rent suitable filming locations to film a story like TEXAS RISING and within 100 miles of where those events actually happened - There are a LOT of large ranches in south TX.)

May I also add that there are MANY re-enactors who would likely "swarm" into south TX on the hope that they could be IN a HC/PC movie about early TX.
(IF I have anything to say about the filming, we will use REAL AmerIndians, as there are PLENTY of Tsalagis, Comanches & Apaches, who will want a job.)

Should I get to write/sell the mini-series for cable TV, we will, I feel sure, use FEW "name" actors & will find technical advisors who KNOW Texas history. = I've been involved in the production of two WBTS movies & we had little trouble with either finance, finding advisors, getting a director who wanted to try to do things correctly & people who were amenable to direction.
(GETTYSBURG & GODS and GENERALS were far from HC/PC but neither were they TEXAS RISING, GUNSMOKE or TRUE GRIT either.)

Also, clothing, weapons & horse tack that would look "realistic" in a movie (though those items wouldn't stand a close inspection by a "stitch counter") wouldn't be that difficult to do.

just my OPINIONS, satx

 

[user 20224]

We produced most of the horse equipment used for principals in G-burg and G&G, also rented principal horses and worked as a wrangler. The days of giving re-enactors a place to camp, a tee shirt and feeding them generic egg mc muffins are over. It did not work as well on G&G the second time around as a lot of our guys were hired as crew when they needed numbers. This created a lot of bad feelings when the word got out that our guys were making decent money and living in motels.
My friends still active in the trade charge rates that we just dreamed of and there are not the numbers of re-enactors to draw on.
I wish you well and hope that you can put together something that will sell, hate to see the period movies go away as they made us a fair living.

 

[user 20224]

As you know producers Robert Katz and Moctesuma Esparza had a lot to do with getting the amount of authentic shots that we got. They were very supportive of doing it right.

Finding enough period correct horse equipment will be harder than you think and will be expensive that is why Texas Rising had a smattering of correct mixed with everything up to 1950s trail ride saddles.

If you get something going contact David Carrico, he is good and has the research available so you do not end up using civil war Grimsley Artillery saddles and Mc Cellands like T.R. did.

 

[PaulN/KS]

+1 on David Carrico's work. His craftsmanship is top notch. :thumbsup:

 

[Woods Dweller]

Like the movie "the Alamo". When I saw political issue [that we cant disgust here] put into the movie, I shut them off [.]

 

[Artificer]

We produced most of the horse equipment used for principals in G-burg and G&G, also rented principal horses and worked as a wrangler. The days of giving re-enactors a place to camp, a tee shirt and feeding them generic egg mc muffins are over. It did not work as well on G&G the second time around as a lot of our guys were hired as crew when they needed numbers. This created a lot of bad feelings when the word got out that our guys were making decent money and living in motels.
My friends still active in the trade charge rates that we just dreamed of and there are not the numbers of re-enactors to draw on.
I wish you well and hope that you can put together something that will sell, hate to see the period movies go away as they made us a fair living.

Good points.

I was offered the command of a Confederate Regiment in G-Burg and would have loved to have done it, but at first they said they wanted us available for 45 days for the filming. I had more leave on the books than that, but there was no way the Corps would allow me that much time off. For people who were "regular" reenactors, that much time was also way too much. I think they did get it down to about a week to 10 days of filming when they actually did it. (I was stationed in California by that time, BUT would have come back for that period of time, had I known.) MANY of the members of my own and fellow reenactment units were in G-Burg though and the first time I saw the camera "pan" across the Confederate Soldiers prior to making Pickett's Charge, I knew almost every soldier. Most of the modern members of my unit were in G-Burg as historically our Regiment fought on the first day and was also in Pickett's Charge.

I don't know where they actually filmed GandG, but it sure looked like Fredericksburg,VA, much to their credit. Our Confederate Unit members lived in or near Fredericksburg, so it was in "our backyard."

I can certainly understand how expensive it was to do even the WBTS horse equipment correctly and it would be even more expensive to do it for the Texas War of Independence, even for just the principal actors.

One thing I have to give Texas Rising credit for was most or all of the time they used flintlock pistols and long guns, at least for the shots a viewer could easily see them.

Gus

 

[satx78247]

One of the interesting things about the TX Revolution is that I've NOT yet found anyone, who can tell me in specific what the CORRECT horse tack was in the 1830s. = Several people CLAIM to know but when asked for sources say something like, "That's what I think" or "some people say" or something else that is equally silly.

I suspect that much of the saddles/tack of the Mexican army was War of 1812 surplus, as the Mexicans bought a GREAT deal of other "1812 surplus".
What the soldiers of the TX army had for tack is "a mystery to me" BUT I would be PLEASED to KNOW for sure.

As to firearms, I don't think that we can go too wrong using Brown Bess, Baker's rifles, Charleyvilles, Model of 1816 muskets & southern civilian type rifles.

yours, satx

 

[user 20224]

When you get ready to do your project let me know and I will invest some time in running down your answers. The problem with that time period and pointing to specific equipment has always been the lack of monetary incentive to spend the required time and effort.

The standard response is to just use something that people do not recognize.

 

[satx78247]

WILCO. - The TX project will "be a while" IF ever, as I'm having "teething problems" with SONS OF BLOOD & DAUGHTERS OF FIRE, which is a "PRE-history" of the 2nd War between North & South (set in 2020-25AD) & this "go-round" it's a CIVIL WAR for "all the marbles".

yours, satx

 

[user 20224]

There are several very well versed individuals on here who could probably answer your weapons questions.

 

[satx78247]

Indeed there are.

yours, satx

 

[Wes/Tex]

It appears from what little actually remains that your guess was correct. The Santanistas' cavalry were mostly armed and equipped with surplus British Elliot carbines, land service pistols and Dragoon horse tack.

The Texian forces were probably much more varied with the majority of horse gear being private purchase. The U.S. Dragoons were only 3 years old and the M.1833 saddle was of English style "Hussar" in nature and the Ringgold and Grimsley patterns were nearly 10 years, or more, in the future. Anything 'military' on the Texian would have dated from the War of 1812 light dragoons...not totally dissimilar from the M.1833 pattern then in use by the U.S.

Swords and knives would be a nightmare to prove and most anything made prior to 1835 would be kosher! :wink: :rotf: