I have read that Davey and a few other's surrendered and were shot by firing squad. Any truth to any of that?
The Alamo cannon
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I have read that Davey and a few other's surrendered and were shot by firing squad. Any truth to any of that?
SamTex1949
32 Cal.
I agree another for me was standing on the hill at Little Big Horn battle field and Gettysburg at the fence corner facing Picket's charge !
I guess we'll never know for sure. I've heard that story too, about how Davy Crockett was taken alive. Then executed along with several others. And I see no shame in being a survivor. Hopefully an expert in this field will enlighten us. It can never be proven but I 'm sure he used numerous attackers for "target practice" before the siege was over.
I'll probably never make it to Little Bighorn. I'm getting too old plus I never was a Custer fan. But I can imagine it would also produce that "goosebump effect". Just thinking of all the soldiers and men with Custer would do it for me. Desperate fighting! The Sunken Road on the Sharpsburg Battlefield also did it for me. Sacred ground.
The term "pounder" to specify bore size is a strictly English origin. England and her colonies are the only ones to measure weight in pounds. They specified bore diameter in the weight of a spherical shot of bore diameter. I don't know what designation/units were used by other countries "back in the day", I suppose it's predictable/understandable that we'd try to use the easy way out in giving bore size. Though it would be easier/clearer to use inches.
The trunnions below centerline design is typical of naval or sometimes garrison ordnance mounted on trucks (proper term for such carriages).
The trunnions below centerline design is typical of naval or sometimes garrison ordnance mounted on trucks (proper term for such carriages).
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Is it possible that in that picture in the opening post the cannon is upside down. The trunnions seem above centerline. But maybe it could be my eyes playing tricks on me too.
Those cannon are very heavy objects. Wasn't Col. Travis hurt in a cannon accident when it became dismounted?
GunnyGene
75 Cal.
You're correct. The touch hole is facing down on that shipping pallet. Made it simpler to strap it down I assume, or they just didn't care which side was up.
It will be right side up when it's mounted in the carriage.
It amazed me how small The Alamo is. That place give you goosebumps just being there.
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Yes, I now recall mention of a 16 pdr. in the article I was referencing. (My error!) I will dig thru my pile of magazines and find it. Thanks for the mention...anything Alamo is OK in
my book; I'm one of the baby-boomers that got into history watching Davy Crockett...
my book; I'm one of the baby-boomers that got into history watching Davy Crockett...
The Alamo 180 years ago was considerably larger than the remaining structures there today.
I borrowed this drawing from a site on the web who got it from the University of Texas .
Treestalker
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Lt. Col. De la Pena of the Mexican Army recorded that he asked for the lives of the survivors, including Davy Crockett, to be spared, but was denied by His Excellency, Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana. Subsequently, the survivors were tied to chairs and hacked to death with swords. I cannot at this late date, recall where I read that, but I believe it was De la Pena's own account. He also stated that he regretted that barbaric treatment.
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Thanks, when the legend gets in the way of facts, print the legend.
143 years ago today(June 25) Custer and 5 troops rode down into the Little Bighorn. Custer once said his " 7th Cav. could ride through the whole Sioux Nation, he should of put thought into riding back out.
DaveC
32 Cal.
The cannon that were disabled by the post-San Jacinto Mexican occupiers before they retreated were found not far from the Alamo at property acquired by Sam Maverick. The cascabels and trunnions had been knocked off, and the guns were spiked.
The cannon recently went to Texas A&M where they were cleaned, analyzed, dated, etc. and then treated with tannic acid, which turned them black, and were given a protective coating and returned to the Alamo. They are now displayed muzzle down so that foreign matter, debris, and garbage will not be thrown in them, and so water will not intrude into the bores. One of the guns was found to have had two dry balls rolled into the breech and secured with a spike driven into the touch hole.
The state of the research on the Alamo cannon may be found in James V. Woodrick, Cannons of the Texas Revolution (2016). There were 24 guns at the Alamo, but only 21 were mounted. These included the 18-pounder--the largest gun, and the one on the Southwest bastion that fired the reply to Lopez de Santa Anna's command to surrender unconditionally--the 16-pounder here that your friend is building the replica carriage for, a 12-pounder carronade or gunade ex-naval gun, a 9-pulgada/inch "pedrero," 3 9-pounders, 4 x 6-pounders--including the "real" Come and Take It! cannon, not the small iron signal gun that was abandoned... Some evidence suggests that the bronze six-pounder is now a church bell, 4 x 4-pounders, 2 x 3-pounders, a 2-pounder and something like 3 swivel guns.
The closing line of the Muzzle Blasts NMLRA article asserted that the "guns of the Alamo were no more..." But the location of 13 of the guns is known.
The tambour or lunnette protecting the the southern gate had two brass/bronze 6-pounders.
Moving to the left, toward the southwest bastion in a clockwise motion the next was the largest cannon: An iron 18-pounder.
Moving along the western wall we would next find the 12-pounder iron carronade/gunade installation.
Moving north along the western wall, the next battery would be the 9-in. pedrero, of iron.
At the northwest corner was a bastion with your 16-pounder there, and one of the 9-pounders, both of iron.
Rounding the corner and walking down the north wall, which was in the worst state of repair and had been shored up, we arrive at the probable site of Travis' death on the northern bastion, backed by a ramp, on which were no fewer than three guns: 2 x 9 pounders and a 6-pounder.
On the northwest wall, along the tops of the barracks buildings and so on it is thought there were two iron "esmerils" or swivel guns with about a 1" bore. Heading southeast, there was a mounted 6 pounder made of brass.
Going along the east wall, we next find the so-called "Fortin de Cos" erected at the rear of the Alamo chapel with three more guns, apparently all 4-pounders.
Going around the corner, we'd be picking our way through the sharpened tree trunk abatis and moving along the southeastern double palisade with earth fill. This is where Crockett and his Tennesseans with long rifles are thought to have been placed, as well as a single brass 4-pounder.
We now come back to the tambour or lunnette, having also gone past the building where the ailing James Bowie was...
Going through the southern gate we would face two 3-pounders facing us, placed to defend the southern gate from the interior of the old mission compound.
Turning to our right, we'd see a brass 2-pounder, and up in the long barracks/ hospital building another esmeril or swivel gun.
The cannon recently went to Texas A&M where they were cleaned, analyzed, dated, etc. and then treated with tannic acid, which turned them black, and were given a protective coating and returned to the Alamo. They are now displayed muzzle down so that foreign matter, debris, and garbage will not be thrown in them, and so water will not intrude into the bores. One of the guns was found to have had two dry balls rolled into the breech and secured with a spike driven into the touch hole.
The state of the research on the Alamo cannon may be found in James V. Woodrick, Cannons of the Texas Revolution (2016). There were 24 guns at the Alamo, but only 21 were mounted. These included the 18-pounder--the largest gun, and the one on the Southwest bastion that fired the reply to Lopez de Santa Anna's command to surrender unconditionally--the 16-pounder here that your friend is building the replica carriage for, a 12-pounder carronade or gunade ex-naval gun, a 9-pulgada/inch "pedrero," 3 9-pounders, 4 x 6-pounders--including the "real" Come and Take It! cannon, not the small iron signal gun that was abandoned... Some evidence suggests that the bronze six-pounder is now a church bell, 4 x 4-pounders, 2 x 3-pounders, a 2-pounder and something like 3 swivel guns.
The closing line of the Muzzle Blasts NMLRA article asserted that the "guns of the Alamo were no more..." But the location of 13 of the guns is known.
The tambour or lunnette protecting the the southern gate had two brass/bronze 6-pounders.
Moving to the left, toward the southwest bastion in a clockwise motion the next was the largest cannon: An iron 18-pounder.
Moving along the western wall we would next find the 12-pounder iron carronade/gunade installation.
Moving north along the western wall, the next battery would be the 9-in. pedrero, of iron.
At the northwest corner was a bastion with your 16-pounder there, and one of the 9-pounders, both of iron.
Rounding the corner and walking down the north wall, which was in the worst state of repair and had been shored up, we arrive at the probable site of Travis' death on the northern bastion, backed by a ramp, on which were no fewer than three guns: 2 x 9 pounders and a 6-pounder.
On the northwest wall, along the tops of the barracks buildings and so on it is thought there were two iron "esmerils" or swivel guns with about a 1" bore. Heading southeast, there was a mounted 6 pounder made of brass.
Going along the east wall, we next find the so-called "Fortin de Cos" erected at the rear of the Alamo chapel with three more guns, apparently all 4-pounders.
Going around the corner, we'd be picking our way through the sharpened tree trunk abatis and moving along the southeastern double palisade with earth fill. This is where Crockett and his Tennesseans with long rifles are thought to have been placed, as well as a single brass 4-pounder.
We now come back to the tambour or lunnette, having also gone past the building where the ailing James Bowie was...
Going through the southern gate we would face two 3-pounders facing us, placed to defend the southern gate from the interior of the old mission compound.
Turning to our right, we'd see a brass 2-pounder, and up in the long barracks/ hospital building another esmeril or swivel gun.
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DaveC
32 Cal.
I attach the "garrita" or watch tower built late in the Spanish colonial period just east of San Antonio (today in the center of the City Cemetery No. 2). There was also a defensive "foso" or ditch and a powder magazine built there as well. Nothing remains of the structure today.
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DaveC
32 Cal.
The diary of Jose Enrique de la Pena, a lieutenant of the Centralist Mexican forces under Santa Anna, and an account that is highly critical of him and his conduct reported that David Crockett and about six other defenders were captured and hors de combat. His excellency, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna saw them and demanded to know why the Toral decree that any North American taken in arms was to be summarily executed as a pirate had not been carried out? The officers present insisted that these were valiant men who'd fought to the bitter end and that such an order was dishonorable. Santa Anna ordered that the execution be carried out, and his sycophants and entourage drew their swords and fell upon the unarmed group and slaughtered them. The lieutenant reported that they died bravely and did not ask for mercy or make any pleas. So they died defending the Alamo too. Susanna Dickinson, widow of Capt. Almaron Dickinson, reported seeing Crockett slain outside the Alamo chapel after the battle when she and the surviving women and children and Travis' butler and servant Joe were led away to see Santa Anna and receive a few silver coins and blankets from him... So either you believe her, or the Mexican Lt....
I attach one of the Mexican illustrations of the fortified Mission compound.
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DaveC,
Just wanted to say I truly enjoyed reading your posts, especially as I had visited the Alamo in the early 2,000's.
Gus
Just wanted to say I truly enjoyed reading your posts, especially as I had visited the Alamo in the early 2,000's.
Gus
I'm a little rusty on my spanish. What exactly is this 9-pulgada /inch "pedrero" that you mentioned?
