The Colt Open Top Hammer Sight

[Bad Karma]

I really can't imagine that staying on there for long

It’s staked into a dovetail and it’s been there twenty odd years. I’m not worried about it at this point.

 

[William P Sepessy]

I squared off the rear(hammer) sights in order to pick up the front sight quicker. In many cases I could not see the whole width of the front sight due to the narrow "V" shape of the rear notch. In the process I did deepen the rear notch a bit. I found this aided in quick sight acquisition(Cowboy Shooting) as well as more precise shooting.

 

[Bad Karma]

I messed up. That was intended to be a quote (or should have have been) from another poster.

Full on board as clearly the cylinder is lower than the frame or the barrel assembly.



I have a 47 Walker - is the sight the same or ??????

I suspect they are but you can measure the thickness and see. Going from memory I think it’s about .120 or so. The ladies at VTI could likely measure one for you.

I've always wondered if WE aren't applying our method of using a sight and expectations instead of how THEY used them when talking Cap-n-Ball revolvers? For example, at most handgun fight distances which are at 10 feet or less, would you be taking the time to "aim" using the sights, OR would you be point shooting?

At a distance where the sights would be used, are they not correct? The Hickock-Tutt fight of 1865 took place at what reportedly was 75 yards, and Hickock is reported to have used his sights, striking Tutt between the fifth and seventh ribs. As Tutt was standing with his left side toward Hickock when struck, the bullet traversed his chest cavity, and he died about a minute or less after impact.

That may be pretty accurate, but Hickock did not report where on Tutt he was aiming when he fired. IF Hickock was aiming at Tutt where Tutt's head met the shoulders, then that's a pretty good drop, but, perhaps Hickock knew that his pistols were good at 40 yards using the sights, and simply trusted the handgun would hit Tutt somewhere in the torso. I doubt Wild Bill knew Tutt was at 75 yards, and suspect he only knew Tutt was a "good way off, so hold a bit high". Hickock did use his left arm to steady his aim when firing at Tutt.

Have we tried out our Colt copies to see where those sights actually lob the bullet with proper self defense powder loads, or are we trying to make the sights work with light loads at twenty-five feet?

LD

You may have a point but I have never used anything but full power loads in my guns. They are plinkers but also used for small and medium sized game so they are sighted accordingly.

 

[Smokerr]

I've always wondered if WE aren't applying our method of using a sight and expectations instead of how THEY used them when talking Cap-n-Ball revolvers?

While I don't disagree at all about what was intended vs now, its the now I shoot in and I would like a reasonable pattern on POA at 25 yards, not 10 inches high.

My fun is seeing what I can achieve group wise at my preferred range.

 

[M. De Land]

I thought this was worth its own post as 45D and I had the same reaction to cutting the Hammer Sight Notch deeper, you are not changing anything.

My take was you also would have to grind down the area above the sight slot and lower the whole top to lower your POI. Seems like front sight fix is a lot better.

And to add in a 2 cents, looking at that slot on my 47 Walker (a sample of one so I don't say it applies to all Open Tops) is that its at the wrong angle.

Putting a thin ruler in that slot when the hammer is full cock, its rakes up at a 30-40 deg angle. So the only part you can see is the very top of that slot for a sight picture. Be curious if anyone has original Colt Open top pictures of the hammer sight notch.

I have cut mine open more left and right to get more of a view and it has helped. But I am working on it at the top area as any more depth would require cutting down in that small spot. I may do it but I do this stuff a bit at a time.

And being the odd ball that I am, I also upset the front sight, its still lodged in the slot but rotated up and will see how much that helps. I don't think it will come loose but will keep an eye on it and its range only so I have control over that, not something you would want to try for a field gun. I did that last night and both the filing and the front sight will be a test to see how it affects the all too high POI (well the rear is for sight picture and the front is for lowering POI)

I can also access it to measure it for when I get a piece of brass that I can make into a higher front sight and install it. Then I have to see how the sight picture is with square, or open up the left to right on the hammer more or taper the front sight like it is.

This is the best sighting remedy I am aware of for open frame guns along with squaring the notch in the hammer nose.

 

[wiscoaster]

This is the best sighting remedy I am aware of for open frame guns along with squaring the notch in the hammer nose.

Sorry, but looks kind of weird, though I'm sure it's effective.

 

[Smokerr]

If I was doing that it would be a Partridge type with the reverse rake.

I am sure not setup to cut a dovetail. So fit into a slot with a square front sight and then take it from there while height is determined and decide if its work messing with for reverse angle or square is good enough.

 

[B P Arn]

If I was doing that it would be a Partridge type with the reverse rake...

Be aware that partridge sights have been known to fly off.

 

[dickydalton]

This is on my C-Series 1851 that Mike did back in 2014. I grooved the hammer and it hits dead center at 25 yards ever since.

 

[M. De Land]

This is the best sighting remedy I am aware of for open frame guns along with squaring the notch in the hammer nose.

Sorry, but looks kind of weird, though I'm sure it's effective.

That's the beauty, one can choose any profile they like and have adjustment for windage and elevation. I like this profile and the look personally but should have made the base about .100 wider I think !

 

[Smokerr]

This is on my C-Series 1851 that Mike did back in 2014. I grooved the hammer and it hits dead center at 25 yards ever since.

Interesting, I know mine is not a great picture but the grove on my hammer runs down the backside further - when I get the new front sight on I will see how that sight picture looks and open up the hammer more if needed (probably)

Kind of an odd angle on mine so not sure if that is normal or ???????

That said it was not hard to see what it needed and square off the bottom at roughly parallel to the barrel as well as opening it up left and right.

 

[Malamute]

Modifying sights isnt a new idea, theres a number of historical examples, mostly of small dovetails front sights added. The pair of engraved Navy Colts at the Cody Museum attributed to Hickok has one of the pair with a small dovetail front sight. If one can assume as only one was done, it would be to ensure both guns hit to the same point of aim. There were several examples of such changes when I was at the museum several years ago.

I think its also same to assume that Hickok as well as most that used Colts revolvers much that they were quite aware of the zero range and where to hold at various distances.

In regards to assumptions, some may be assuming facts not in evidence that Hickok used Navy Colts in the fight with Tutt. Hickok was known to own and use various pistols to include a Colts Dragoon and S&W 44 top break SA. One article Ive read was strongly in favor of the idea he used the Dragoon, with some evidence of him having it or its use in that time period. Regardless, either one was capable at that range.

Some people come to the conclusion he had no other guns or even more than one pair of engraved Navies, that's not in accordance with some other reports. We dont know how many guns of any given type he owned over time. Its probably safe to say he had common examples of the Navies before he had an engraved pair. I believe there is more than one account of wealthy fans/benefactors giving him guns, and more than one pair of engraved Navies.

Modified sight

 

[M. De Land]

Interesting, I know mine is not a great picture but the grove on my hammer runs down the backside further - when I get the new front sight on I will see how that sight picture looks and open up the hammer more if needed (probably)

Kind of an odd angle on mine so not sure if that is normal or ???????

That said it was not hard to see what it needed and square off the bottom at roughly parallel to the barrel as well as opening it up left and right.

Most open frame guns shoot high and off to one side which means the front sight needs to be elevated and given some windage to hit POA which clears being able to look over the cylinder through the hammer notch. A trick I have used for windage in non dove tailed front sights is to make the blade offset to the mounting cut/mortise. You can hardly notice it being off center and yet it allows for a windage correction.
Also I wouldn't be totally adverse to TIG welding up the hammer notch and recutting off center a bit so all the windage would not have to be up front. Heat control paste would be needed to keep the hammer face hard and it might have to be recased.

 

[CyrusP]

That’s a nice looking front sight @M. De Land

 

[Smokerr]

Or you could do something like this…
View attachment 343096

It could but what I like about the Hammer notch sight is that it give me a long sight picture.

Even without the Eyepal I can shoot it. That is a nice setup though, nice looking gun as well.

 

[Smokerr]

all BP pistols and rifles should come with a high front site that can easily be filed to what POI you want

Mfgs will make decisions based on the gross sales (people) not the nuts like us that think these are a canvas to do our thing with.

It would be nice to have an option like the Pietta NMA Target. That is a nice sight. Front sight still needs to be raised (or the rear worked deeper and milled at top)

 

[CyrusP]

I’m at my range now and I’m using a pipe cleaner as a trial front sight to bring bullet impact way down. So far so good. I’m thinking some thin brass wire to replace the pipe cleaner for more trial and error and finally I’ll pull the original from sight for a taller one. By eyeball I think a sight 3x the originals height will suffice. 10 grains 3F, .323 round ball and a dribble of bore butter or similar. Range about 13 yards so far.

 

[CyrusP]

Just switched to wire.

 

[B P Arn]

Why not just install an extra tall sight and file it down to the proper height?

 

[CyrusP]

That’s the plan. I just wanted to get a sense of how tall it will be. And I wanted an excuse to shoot her.