The "full size" Pedersoli muzzleloaders... somewhat rare?

[bones92]

I have acquired, over the years, a number of reproduction rifles, many made in Spain or Italy. Among those are various Pedersoli rifles, and the great majority have been what I call "miniature" rifles. By this, I mean that they are modeled after a generic Kentucky Rifle but the barrels are around 34-35 inches.

However, two of the Pedersolis I've kept (having parted with most of the others) are what I call "full size" rifles. Meaning, they have approximately 42" barrels. These also have double set triggers, whereas most (if not all?) of the "miniature" sized examples have a single trigger.

I don't have any of my Pedersoli "Frontier" (aka, Blue Ridge) rifles anymore, so I don't recall their barrel length, but I think they are between 40 and 42 inches.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to note, as these two full size rifles seem somewhat uncommon (when looking at all the various used Pedersoli muzzleloaders on auction). I suspect that the earlier miniature size rifles were a product of marketing and perhaps done with an eye toward keeping costs down. Or maybe just because nobody figured the public would really notice the diminutive stature of these rifles (though I do find that they are great for youth and some women, as they are much easier to hold steady).

Both are .45 caliber. The flintlock is dated AP (1986) and the percussion BL (1998) Note how some of the styling and parts seem identical (patchbox, triggerguard, etc) but some other details changed, such as placement of the ramrod pipes and rear sight. The flintlock has a modified front sight, no doubt, and probably resembled the one on the percussion rifle originally.

Oh, and happy birthday to our United States Marine Corps.

 

[springfield art]

I have acquired, over the years, a number of reproduction rifles, many made in Spain or Italy. Among those are various Pedersoli rifles, and the great majority have been what I call "miniature" rifles. By this, I mean that they are modeled after a generic Kentucky Rifle but the barrels are around 34-35 inches.

However, two of the Pedersolis I've kept (having parted with most of the others) are what I call "full size" rifles. Meaning, they have approximately 42" barrels. These also have double set triggers, whereas most (if not all?) of the "miniature" sized examples have a single trigger.

I don't have any of my Pedersoli "Frontier" (aka, Blue Ridge) rifles anymore, so I don't recall their barrel length, but I think they are between 40 and 42 inches.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to note, as these two full size rifles seem somewhat uncommon (when looking at all the various used Pedersoli muzzleloaders on auction). I suspect that the earlier miniature size rifles were a product of marketing and perhaps done with an eye toward keeping costs down. Or maybe just because nobody figured the public would really notice the diminutive stature of these rifles (though I do find that they are great for youth and some women, as they are much easier to hold steady).

Both are .45 caliber. The flintlock is dated AP (1986) and the percussion BL (1998) Note how some of the styling and parts seem identical (patchbox, triggerguard, etc) but some other details changed, such as placement of the ramrod pipes and rear sight. The flintlock has a modified front sight, no doubt, and probably resembled the one on the percussion rifle originally.

Oh, and happy birthday to our United States Marine Corps.

You have a point. I think a mfgr. like Pedersoli has to take into account cost, demand, (not a majority of guys like a 42" bbl.), shipping issues both from the Continent and from dealers to retail customers, even wood-working details in the modern factory. We're lucky to have good builders and the super guns from Kibler and others, which do look more authentic that the commercially built Pedersolis. You're very observant, and thanks!

 

[sawyer04]

I had one of these long rifles and it is a .38 caliber. I tried to find some information lately and hit road blocks. I wouldn't say the rifle was rare, but the caliber was. Most were .36 caliber I found and were short rifles. I felt the trade was good but often wondered about the long rifle's history. This was before the computer era.

 

[springfield art]

I have acquired, over the years, a number of reproduction rifles, many made in Spain or Italy. Among those are various Pedersoli rifles, and the great majority have been what I call "miniature" rifles. By this, I mean that they are modeled after a generic Kentucky Rifle but the barrels are around 34-35 inches.

However, two of the Pedersolis I've kept (having parted with most of the others) are what I call "full size" rifles. Meaning, they have approximately 42" barrels. These also have double set triggers, whereas most (if not all?) of the "miniature" sized examples have a single trigger.

I don't have any of my Pedersoli "Frontier" (aka, Blue Ridge) rifles anymore, so I don't recall their barrel length, but I think they are between 40 and 42 inches.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to note, as these two full size rifles seem somewhat uncommon (when looking at all the various used Pedersoli muzzleloaders on auction). I suspect that the earlier miniature size rifles were a product of marketing and perhaps done with an eye toward keeping costs down. Or maybe just because nobody figured the public would really notice the diminutive stature of these rifles (though I do find that they are great for youth and some women, as they are much easier to hold steady).

Both are .45 caliber. The flintlock is dated AP (1986) and the percussion BL (1998) Note how some of the styling and parts seem identical (patchbox, triggerguard, etc) but some other details changed, such as placement of the ramrod pipes and rear sight. The flintlock has a modified front sight, no doubt, and probably resembled the one on the percussion rifle originally.

Oh, and happy birthday to our United States Marine Corps.

One can't but help notice the Nice Wood used in the stocks you've pictured. Pedersoli is a great company for us muzzleloaders, along with Uberti (Owned by Beretta) and Pietta. Where would we be without them, hobbywise?

 

[bones92]

Springfield Art, I agree... Pedersoli is still (IMHO) a great intermediate entry-level manufacturer. Especially if one is patient and finds a used Pedersoli in good condition... generally around 1/3 of what a Kibler kit would cost (and about half of what a nice used custom rifle would cost).

I keep an eye on used Pedersoli rifles on Gunbroker, and I can't recall seeing very many of these "full size" examples show up. Both of mine exhibit the quality of a decent custom rifle, in truth. Some may look askance at Pedersoli locks, but I think they're relatively good locks for the price.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Frontier (top) and Dixie bottom - 40" and 42" respectively.
Both are great shooters and accurate.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Both are .45 caliber. The flintlock is dated AP (1986) and the percussion BL (1998) Note how some of the styling and parts seem identical (patchbox, triggerguard, etc) but some other details changed, such as placement of the ramrod pipes and rear sight. The flintlock has a modified front sight, no doubt, and probably resembled the one on the percussion rifle originally.

Oh, and happy birthday to our United States Marine Corps.

Nice! These both appear to be Pennsylvania "DIXIE" models, separated by a few years.

 

[bones92]

Thanks, Griz44Mag.

 

[springfield art]

Nice! These both appear to be Pennsylvania "DIXIE" models, separated by a few years.

Wonder what the muzzleloading world would be like if Dixie had never come into being back in the day?

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

I think the only barrel Pedersoli do over 40" is the Pennsylvania (41 5/8") that comes in 38 or 45 cal. Next is frontier that is a 39" barrel. The alamo, kentucky and Indian trade gun all around around 36".

In percussion the rocky mountain hawken (my favourite) is a 34 5/8" barrel.

I own three pedersolis and love them. Great shooters and beautiful guns.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Frontier (top) and Dixie bottom - 40" and 42" respectively.
Both are great shooters and accurate.
View attachment 103777View attachment 103778

Are there any point of difference between them?

I have a couple of hawken caplocks and an Indian trade gun but would like a flintlock rifle. I looked at the frontier and pennsylvania/dixie. Other than barrel length the only real difference I can see is that the frontier ($1700aud) is cheaper than the pennsylvania ($2400aud).

 

[barracudadave67]

I just recently bought a Pedersoli kit from Dixie Gun Works. It is the Pennsylvania Rifle in .50 cal, flint lock, with a 41.5 inch BBl, with double set triggers.

I have all the metal inletted to it, and it didn't take much work at all to inlet. The lock is real nice (cnc machineing??). I polished all the parts where they all work on each other. the lock is smooth. The BBL finnish is quite smmoth, with a kind of blue finnish for shipping.
I am not using the Pedersoli sights. I bought some blank sights from TOW, and installed them.
I am going to brown the lock, and BBL.

Only thing I wish it had is a cheek piece on the stock, along with a side lock plate.

Their is not a lot of wood finnishing to do, shouldn't take much work at all. Stock is American Walnut.
I also made a 1inch longer ram rod out of hickory to use instead of the one that came with it At the same time I drilled out the R/R guides to 3/8th inch from 9MM.

Heres a Pic.

Dave

 

[bones92]

barracudadave67, very nice! You can find a nice patchbox kit that would look great and be of good utility, too. What are you going to finish the wood with?

 

[Griz44Mag]

Are there any point of difference between them?

I have a couple of hawken caplocks and an Indian trade gun but would like a flintlock rifle. I looked at the frontier and pennsylvania/dixie. Other than barrel length the only real difference I can see is that the frontier ($1700aud) is cheaper than the pennsylvania ($2400aud).

Both models have levels of finish that drive the price. Frontier is shorter.
The Frontier starts at $695.00 for the "plain" model with no patchbox. The "Deluxe" model has a patchbox and fancy wood.
The Pennsylvania does the same - the base model has no patchbox and starts around $900.00 with the fancy version being the "Dixie"

 

[Griz44Mag]

Found a couple of places that have the fancy Pennsylvania for $1300.00 - $1500.00. Don't know where you got the 2400 price from but I would not be shopping there.

 

[bones92]

Found a couple of places that have the fancy Pennsylvania for $1300.00 - $1500.00. Don't know where you got the 2400 price from but I would not be shopping there.

I think GoodRabbitPilgrim is in Australia. So 2400 AUD is closer to $1750 USD, which considering tax and import fees, is probably accurate.

 

[1971fx]

Early Turner Kirkland with 40 inch barrel 45 caliber

 

[Griz44Mag]

I think GoodRabbitPilgrim is in Australia. So 2400 AUD is closer to $1750 USD, which considering tax and import fees, is probably accurate.

I guess I missed that fact. Now it makes sense!

 

[Critter Getter]

Kinda wonder why Pedersoli doesn’t offer their Frontier in a kit form? I own a couple and even tho I think they are nice rifles the finish on the walnut stocks Is nothing to write home about. Yes I know I could strip them down and refinish them but seems if they were available in kit form a nicer end result might be had. Greg

 

[bones92]

Critter Getter, I only suppose that Pedersoli has figured out that most guys want a finished rifle, and maybe there were more complaints with kit rifles because people did something wrong and blamed the company for it. Plus, the added revenue for finishing the rifles probably outweighs the cost saving of selling unfinished kits.


When considering the price of new Pedersoli rifles nowadays, I'd lean toward getting a Jim Kibler or Pecatonica kit. Nothing against Pedersoli, but for a bit more money you can get a quality kit with superb parts.