The Future of Traditional Muzzleloaders?

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I was working at a gun shop that had a black powder corner when the inlines first started coming out. Suddenly nobody wanted the T/C and CVA guns that we had stocked for decades. Soooo.... the boss started stocking Knights and Austin & Hallecks and Remingtons.... oh my.

Oddly enough, I never really had any trouble selling the T/C side-hammer guns. In more modern times, another boss I had hated and still hates traditional guns. I would typically end up with all of those offered on the used market because I would generally outbid my boss at the store I ran. I found that I could sell many more traditional guns than I could inlines.

The traditional guns tended to be in better shape because their owners had taken better care of them... though this was not an absolute. When I DID get a traditional gun in rough shape, I found that I could take it home and have it ready for sale the next day with nothing more than a good cleaning using a bronze bore brush and some water and Murphy's Oil Soap. Surface rust came off with light oil and fine steel wool.

Now, while I do have a single inline gun... an Austin and Halleck, and one T/C flintlock, most of my guns are traditional side-hammer percussion guns. I have started to experiment with plastic sabots and jacketed or cast pistol buillets, but still shoot patched round balls.

I am not impressed with the current generation of youngsters. Most of them would go looking for a left-handed screwdriver or a kerosene lantern battery if I sent them to the hardware store for said items. That said, there are still people doing blacksmithing out there. Still people making Daguerreotype photographs with cameras they built themselves. Still people using traditional platen presses with moveable type composed from a California Job Case.

I don't think traditional black powder guns are going to go the way of the dinosaur any time soon, if ever. I believe I once heard Captain Kirk ask Scotty about mass production of flintlocks once. As long as there is a market, the item will be produced and there will always be a market until or unless the government makes them illegal.... in which case the market with just go underground.
 
Just about anyone can make their own caps and powder, they can even carve out a stock (crude at least), but not everyone can forge a barrel and lock.
Forging the parts is not so difficult really, but the fine machining, boring the barrel, cutting rifling, forging and tempering springs.... now that's almost magical stuff if you gotta do it without a machine shop.

I think if I actually HAD to make a gun from scratch in my smithy, I could probably.... PROBABLY... do it, but it is not something I would really want to try. Too easy for a forge welded barrel to burst for one thing... and it would be ALL MY FAULT.

If you do something every day, it becomes relatively easy for you, but most modern blacksmiths do not make gun barrels. Much easier to order them from someone. Making a hammer to replace a broken one, though, is well within the capabilities of shade tree blacksmiths
 
Traditional muzzleloaders are more popular now than they ever were. Try ordering a custom rifle from any contemporary artist right now... you're looking at 6months, to a year, if not more. Even a Kibler kit takes quite some time to arrive. Dont look at match or rendevouz attendance, look at sales.
 
I run a machine shop at a railroad museum and I have so many young people who want to volunteer in the shop and are frustrated because the schools don't teach shop class and hasn't for a couple of decades. The look on a young person's face when he first turns a part and reads his micrometer is priceless.... I've had the same thing happen at the range when a couple of guys with their girlfriends were watching me out of the corner of their eye loading and firing my Pennsylvania rifle. I smiled and asked if they would like to try it and when the guys shot the girls clapped their hands and were taking phone videos. I spent the rest of the day teaching both the guys and girls about safety, loading and shooting and a little nerdy history too. I sent them links where to purchase them too. If you never tasted a Hershey bar you don't know if you like Hershey bars.
 
Traditional muzzleloaders are more popular now than they ever were. Try ordering a custom rifle from any contemporary artist right now... you're looking at 6months, to a year, if not more. Even a Kibler kit takes quite some time to arrive. Dont look at match or rendevouz attendance, look at sales.
Agreed!
 
Traditional muzzleloaders are more popular now than they ever were. Try ordering a custom rifle from any contemporary artist right now... you're looking at 6months, to a year, if not more. Even a Kibler kit takes quite some time to arrive. Dont look at match or rendevouz attendance, look at sales.
Yes, no, maybe, perhaps, to see...
How many moderns are sold when you are waiting for your traditional rifle, and how many are sold daily to peoples who don't care about traditional or not or prefers the moderns? :dunno:
 
Yes, no, maybe, perhaps, to see...
How many moderns are sold when you are waiting for your traditional rifle, and how many are sold daily to peoples who don't care about traditional or not or prefers the moderns? :dunno:
Supply and demand. There will NEVER be as many traditional muzzleloaders built and sold as modern inlines. They simply cannot be made fast enough to meet demand, hence the back log. It's not an apples and oranges comparison.
 
It's not an apples and oranges comparison.
For a part that's sure and here in Absurdistan/Macronistan we can't get any kind of them, the first ones who left this country were Tradition Firearms and some others and now all the shops of gunsmiths (sale only) are out of stock everywhere for all concerning the serious BP shooting...
Anyway, I'm not here to cry about that: this is our problem and in our country...
It stays what I have seen for more than now twenty-five years (beginning): young people prefer far to buy a .308 or something else than a muzzle-loader (flint or cap) for a rifle, and a Glock in plastic for a handgun: they don't want to hear anything about black powder and even less about muzzle-loading...
We just have to live in our time and stay with the memory of the old and good days...
Could maybe different in the USA: I'm a shooter for sixty-five years in Absurdistan, but never been to the USA to know how is coming in, but I have some doubts about this subject...
 
For a part that's sure and here in Absurdistan/Macronistan we can't get any kind of them, the first ones who left this country were Tradition Firearms and some others and now all the shops of gunsmiths (sale only) are out of stock everywhere for all concerning the serious BP shooting...
Anyway, I'm not here to cry about that: this is our problem and in our country...
It stays what I have seen for more than now twenty-five years (beginning): young people prefer far to buy a .308 or something else than a muzzle-loader (flint or cap) for a rifle, and a Glock in plastic for a handgun: they don't want to hear anything about black powder and even less about muzzle-loading...
We just have to live in our time and stay with the memory of the old and good days...
Could maybe different in the USA: I'm a shooter for sixty-five years in Absurdistan, but never been to the USA to know how is coming in, but I have some doubts about this subject...
Not everyone is going to like what we like. Our ancestors used muzzleloading rifles during their time because that was the best they could get during that time. Had the AR15 existed then, they would have had those instead. Today traditional muzzleloaders are like motorcycles, fast cars, or any other hobby different from the norm. Those with the cash, and the desire to do it, will participate. It's not for everyone and we can't expect it to be for everyone. Traditional Muzzleloading is still growing rapidly once again.
 
Supply and demand. There will NEVER be as many traditional muzzleloaders built and sold as modern inlines. They simply cannot be made fast enough to meet demand, hence the back log. It's not an apples and oranges comparison.

Also, I don’t want an in-line and I might not even want many of the “traditional” muzzleloaders out there. Many of them aren’t traditional either compared to a historically accurate replica fowler. I do regret selling one of my old Lyman flintlocks, but at the time even they weren’t traditional enough for me.
 
"Traditional Muzzleloading is still growing rapidly once again."

Where, every shoot I attend the numbers are down as well as membership numbers?
Again, sales. Rendevouz, clubs like NMLRA etc... in my opinion are mostly hermetically sealed societies. I don't participate in Rendevouz, matches, clubs, or anything similar related to muzzleloading. As close as it gets for me is my silhouette club will put on a flintlock/caplock turkey shoot every Thanksgiving. There are a ton of people like me. It's the guns that interest me, not the social aspect that surrounds them. A lot of younger people who are into primitive muzzleloaders have zero interest in the social aspect of it. In fact, a lot of them see the older generation that still participates in it as gate keepers. Running around the woods in a frock or buck skins doesn't interest them either, but hunting with these firearms does.
 
I think the pendulum is swinging... I think currently there is a strong core group of shooters and builders that will keep muzzleloading from deteriorating to the point we saw in 50's/60's with a tiny group like NMLRA was at the time. But, I doubt we will ever see the huge interest that started building in the 70's with the Bicentennial. That wave lasted about 20 years. It was the 90's/00's the interest in non-traditional rifles really started taking off, and parts for builds started disappearing.
 
Can't speak for other states, but in my state most of the traditional muzzleloaders do not like to wear the traditional clothing, but a lot like the side-hammer shooting. What is killing the traditional muzzleloader shooting is that the muzzleloader hunts use any and all guns loaded by the muzzleloader as long as the caliber is large enough (40 caliber for deer). See a younger person at the range shooting a ML today and it will not be traditional. High Power scopes and guns who shoot a flat projectile at 1000 yards and beyond is what it is all about in todays Utah.
 
To date I've met one other BP shooter in person, and he bad about 45 years on me.

People my age are buying long range rifles and thermal scopes, they look at a guy hunting with roundballs and flints in an open sight muzzleloader as a shmuck.
 
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