You will buy black powder regardless of where it is made, or you'll do without. Bottom line here like it or not.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
The GOEX Plant is shutting down
- Thread starter Ohio Rusty
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Brokennock
Cannon
The point a lot of us are trying to get at is that imported powder is most likely temporary. It can quickly and easily stopped, just like Tula brand primers several years ago and steel case foreign ammo this year.
And, that people didn't have to shoot foreign powder before, but their lack of support of the one and only American manufacturer has resulted in this situation.
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
I'm not a purist. Pyrodex is not as good of a powder as 777 in any way. That is all.
The military has a mothballed BP factory in Indiana. All they have to do is activate it for their supply. OR just buy it overseas.
sportster73hp
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2020
- Messages
- 1,020
- Reaction score
- 791
100 pounds of powder in an RV sounds scary
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,038
- Reaction score
- 1,416
Our largest commissioned ship using BP exclusively for her guns in the USN is a frigate, the USS Constitution. She occasionally fires salutes, but hasn't seen hostile action in a long time.
After the Gulf War, and the brass realizing that those big 16" guns could serve some purpose, and recommissioning of the USS Wisconsin for the action, the 4 Iowa class battleships were placed as museum ships and in the "Mothball Fleet" so they could be fitted for action if the nation needed them. Well, the Gulf war was 30 years ago now. I think the Navy has since decided that it would just take too long and cost too much money to do it so they've been relegated to permanent museum ship status now.
As an fyi, BP IS used in artillery shells, but only the starting "primer" part. That's essentially a 38 special sized case, with a 50 BMG primer at the base. The rest of it is filled with BP, which then ignites the main charge, which is smokeless / nitrocellulose. Lots and lots of it.
After the Gulf War, and the brass realizing that those big 16" guns could serve some purpose, and recommissioning of the USS Wisconsin for the action, the 4 Iowa class battleships were placed as museum ships and in the "Mothball Fleet" so they could be fitted for action if the nation needed them. Well, the Gulf war was 30 years ago now. I think the Navy has since decided that it would just take too long and cost too much money to do it so they've been relegated to permanent museum ship status now.
As an fyi, BP IS used in artillery shells, but only the starting "primer" part. That's essentially a 38 special sized case, with a 50 BMG primer at the base. The rest of it is filled with BP, which then ignites the main charge, which is smokeless / nitrocellulose. Lots and lots of it.
brewer12345
40 Cal
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2019
- Messages
- 463
- Reaction score
- 266
Yeah. Hopefully they did not turn on the water heater, furnace, propane fridge, or stove burners.
RATROD56
40 Cal
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2020
- Messages
- 187
- Reaction score
- 162
Me too
And then there's fireworks. What are the pyrotechnic guys going to do? I know some make their own, but don't think they use BP substitutes.
If BP becomes illegal, would there be no more 4th of July?
Rather than worry worry worrying about dire consequences, let's figure out ways to keep the show on the road. Rather than grousing about it and fearing the worst - go out and make smoke! Do something uplifting!
If BP becomes illegal, would there be no more 4th of July?
Rather than worry worry worrying about dire consequences, let's figure out ways to keep the show on the road. Rather than grousing about it and fearing the worst - go out and make smoke! Do something uplifting!
Well there are some, I predict, that will take a different route..., similar to what happened in 1920
LD
Um the "sales dropped" isn't really a valid argument, Though YES it didn't help, but IF sales and profit were dropping off, then WHY is the stuff in short supply and usually out of stock? Why wasn't a discussion of closing down GOEX going on before now? Somebody is buying the powder as it arrives....., they can't keep it on the shelves...,
I got this from a source..., sorry I can't share him with you all...,
The plant averages a "fire" every 3.4 years, but they are not as catastrophic as last June, and there was one several years ago that was quite bad too. So they ARE getting a profit, BUT when they drop the coin for the repairs and replacement of any damaged equipment..., the accountants look at how long it will be before the profit matches the cash spent...,
..., So 3.4 years from how is around January 2025...if the fire that seems to be likely, happens then and the equipment isn't paid off, that's continuation of the loss. This makes accountants (and stockholders) crazy. IF the fire happens within a year of the repairs and getting new equipment, and since they cannot tell if the fire will be small or a catastrophic fire, if it's a bad fire, then the loss has doubled.
..., the company that owns GOEX makes a bunch of other stuff so they can sacrifice GOEX, and avoid the possible damage of the next fire..., and avoid the profit loss.... and still make money. So in their minds it makes sense.
The fact that I will now be looking to replace all of my modern reloading recipes with products NOT in the Hodgdon line..., is not a factor. Now if Hodgdon lost 100,000 reloader customers like me over the scuttling of GOEX, that might get their attention...,
LD
I too will look for more non Hodgdon powder, but they have bought up lots of brands.
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,038
- Reaction score
- 1,416
There is such a thing called insurance too. Maybe they couldn't get it?
And, given their incident history, was it even affordable?
If they use the same carrier across all product lines did he threaten to pull out over GOEX?
Treestalker
Treestalker
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,051
- Reaction score
- 3,748
- Location
- Third Pond from the Great God Helios
Lloyd's of London used to be the only insurer who would cover rodeo cowboys; I don't know if they still do, or if they would cover a company manufacturing low explosives. I hope so, I had several cowboy friends who used to be insured by them, they said Lloyd's was the ONLY game in town...
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,038
- Reaction score
- 1,416
Some of those specialty things are very hard to get insurance for. I teach scuba diving and there are only a couple of carriers that will touch it from the liability side. It's fairly expensive too. $650 / yr for $1MM in liability coverage. It can't be rolled in to homeowner umbrella policies either. I tried that route. No dice.
that was in the 80's before women took over society implemented their scaredy cat... you will shoot your eye out rules and made everybody scared to drive eat play sports shoot guns hunt swim etc. they forced people to buy altered propane BBQ tanks even went after the plastic fuel containers for small engines. the BP then in those kegs was real cheap
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,082
- Reaction score
- 3,042
We never hear of a fire or explosion at the Swiss black powder plant at Aubonne. Ever wonder why that is?
Maybe they don't toss floor sweepings into the batch.
Microsoft Word - F3EDA668.doc (freeshell.org)
Maybe they don't toss floor sweepings into the batch.
Microsoft Word - F3EDA668.doc (freeshell.org)
Mr. 16 gauge
32 Cal
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2021
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 15
Just my 2 cents...........
I am extremely P.O.d with Hodgdon right now.........they control about 90% of the smokeless powder market; they bought Dupont, and control the company that makes Ramshot and Accurate powders. They have decided to quit manufacturing SR 4756 and SR 7625 several years ago......I used both powders quite a bit, for both handguns and shotshells, specifically bismuth loads in 12 and 16 gauge. They brought out "new" and "improved" powders, such as longshot, but DID NOT produce new data for said powders for bismuth, slugs, ect. If you check out there data, they have powders listed that they haven't made in YEARS (such as HS7), and of the "new" data that did produce, they have listed components that haven't been manufactured in years.
Now, not only are they not making GOEX anymore, and leaving black powder shooters in a lurch, but they've discontinued dupont's 800-X, which I used as a substitute for the aforementioned 4756. I'm glad I stocked up before all the panic buying........but I still would like "options".
I'm guessing that they figure everyone can just suffer and shoot pyrodex..........if you can find it. I will purchase some (what other choice do I have right now) and use it to punch paper and break clays, but when the targets have fur or feathers, I'll be using 'real' BP as long as I can. I don't care for pyrodex......I have had several bad experiences with it in cold weather, but now what other choice do I have?
I wish Alliant would step up to the plate..............they discontinued their BP substitute (I don't know what it was......I never used it; I just saw that it was discontinued on their website), and their reloading data becomes sparser and sparser every year. I have TONS of reloading data for nontoxic shot, but as I stated earlier, the components (specifically wads) are no longer being made.............Winchester, Remington, and Federal have all discontinued most of their lines (I've heard that Remington will no longer be selling reloading components).
I wish I could tell Hodgdon to go to hell, but they are pretty much the only game in town right now.................too bad, as their policies are just as bad as the antigunners/antihunters in congress.
As for stopping imports: Some of you may remember the Boston marathon bombing; there was a politician (cant remember who, exactly) that was pushing for a ban of sales of BP to private individuals, due to the "destructive" nature of BP, and was working on introducing a bill to do such. Someone asked him about reenactors and hunters, to which he basically replied that he didn't give a damn. He was quickly shot down when it was discovered that the bombers used powder obtained from legal fireworks to make the pressure cooker bomb. We've seen what a one sided congress can do to this country in short order......
I wish I could predict the future with some certainty, but with the world being the way it is right now, my crystal ball is kinda cloudy..........let's just hope and pray that God is a BP shooter.................................
I am extremely P.O.d with Hodgdon right now.........they control about 90% of the smokeless powder market; they bought Dupont, and control the company that makes Ramshot and Accurate powders. They have decided to quit manufacturing SR 4756 and SR 7625 several years ago......I used both powders quite a bit, for both handguns and shotshells, specifically bismuth loads in 12 and 16 gauge. They brought out "new" and "improved" powders, such as longshot, but DID NOT produce new data for said powders for bismuth, slugs, ect. If you check out there data, they have powders listed that they haven't made in YEARS (such as HS7), and of the "new" data that did produce, they have listed components that haven't been manufactured in years.
Now, not only are they not making GOEX anymore, and leaving black powder shooters in a lurch, but they've discontinued dupont's 800-X, which I used as a substitute for the aforementioned 4756. I'm glad I stocked up before all the panic buying........but I still would like "options".
I'm guessing that they figure everyone can just suffer and shoot pyrodex..........if you can find it. I will purchase some (what other choice do I have right now) and use it to punch paper and break clays, but when the targets have fur or feathers, I'll be using 'real' BP as long as I can. I don't care for pyrodex......I have had several bad experiences with it in cold weather, but now what other choice do I have?
I wish Alliant would step up to the plate..............they discontinued their BP substitute (I don't know what it was......I never used it; I just saw that it was discontinued on their website), and their reloading data becomes sparser and sparser every year. I have TONS of reloading data for nontoxic shot, but as I stated earlier, the components (specifically wads) are no longer being made.............Winchester, Remington, and Federal have all discontinued most of their lines (I've heard that Remington will no longer be selling reloading components).
I wish I could tell Hodgdon to go to hell, but they are pretty much the only game in town right now.................too bad, as their policies are just as bad as the antigunners/antihunters in congress.
As for stopping imports: Some of you may remember the Boston marathon bombing; there was a politician (cant remember who, exactly) that was pushing for a ban of sales of BP to private individuals, due to the "destructive" nature of BP, and was working on introducing a bill to do such. Someone asked him about reenactors and hunters, to which he basically replied that he didn't give a damn. He was quickly shot down when it was discovered that the bombers used powder obtained from legal fireworks to make the pressure cooker bomb. We've seen what a one sided congress can do to this country in short order......
I wish I could predict the future with some certainty, but with the world being the way it is right now, my crystal ball is kinda cloudy..........let's just hope and pray that God is a BP shooter.................................
Guys, something is definitely going on-and insiders know it. I predict that
within a year we will all know it. The Boston Bombers bought large
pyrotechnics that are now harder to get -and they contained black
powder. Congress needs to hold the line on gun & ammo control
this spring, and block the bills for registration and ammo background
checks that are coming - until we can vote the rascals out in the 2022
midterms.
within a year we will all know it. The Boston Bombers bought large
pyrotechnics that are now harder to get -and they contained black
powder. Congress needs to hold the line on gun & ammo control
this spring, and block the bills for registration and ammo background
checks that are coming - until we can vote the rascals out in the 2022
midterms.
