The patch/sabot controversy

[jtmattison]

Here goes, this should start something interesting.

The question is, by definition, what is the difference between a patch and a sabot?

Don't they both perform the exact same operation?

They are both designed to take up windage in the bore so an undersized projectile can be fired from a larger bore, right?

So what if one is made of fabric and the other is plastic?

What about paper patched bullets? Same concept.

So are we wrong in giving people a hard time for shooting saboted bullets? NO! :blah: But, we have to look at the big picture.

Let's hear what you think.

Huntin

 

[roundball]

The question is, by definition, what is the difference between a patch and a sabot?

I didn't know there was any controversy...yes, both are objects which 'take up windage' in a bore...but in my opinion, the difference is not a technical one.

To select and use a patch is to make a concious decision in favor of learning and using tools & techniques representative of those used back during the early American traditional muzzleloading era, to experience and relive those times.
:redthumb:

 

The question is, by definition, what is the difference between a patch and a sabot?

Patch 1802
Sabot 2002

No comparesome to me

Woody

 

[Stumpkiller]

Oh, it's worse than that. Wood sabots go back to Revolutionary era muzzleloading cannon, possibly farther back.

I remember some miserable little plastic cups produced by, I believe, Butler Creek back in the mid 70's to replace cloth patches on round balls. I believe they came in four calibers/colors. Never worked worth a darn and they disappeared as suddenly as they had arrived. The ball would pop out and work up the barrel. Oops! :shocking:

Then, we have paper patched conicals and round balls.

My definition would be: "A patch is soft and a sabot is hard."

And remember: "Sabot" is the root for our word "Sabotage." They were probably developed by anti-gunners. :winking:

 

[Tahquamenon]

I agree with Roundball, I also do not see any basic functional difference between sabot'ed projectiles and patch'ed projectiles. Both approaches are intended to "cradle" the projectile, engage the rifling and seal the lands between the rifling.

 

[jtmattison]

I didn't know there was any controversy

There wasn't. I wanted to see what would be stirred up.

In this day of modern inline muzzleloaders and saboted bullets I wanted to see what everyone thought about it once you broke it down to basic function over design between a patch and a sabot.

Once again roundball has doused my flame.

Huntin

 

[RussB]

I didn't know there was any controversy

There wasn't. I wanted to see what would be stirred up.

Huntin

I think that question is good question. What is the difference?

I shoot about everything mentioned. I shoot paper patch in my 45-70 using Holy Black, I shoot Paper Patch conicals in one muzzleloader, and I shoot cloth patches in all the other muzzleloaders.
Why don't I shoot sabots?
I guess it would boil down to the image that "some" of those using in-lines have painted of themselves.

Actually it is not my prejudice toward guns, but those who use them to "beat the system". The "users" of in-lines who use sabots have cleverly disguised a jacketed bullet and hope to pass it off as a muzzleloader...to supposedly gain "that edge"....if this last part, "to gain that edge", were not in there, I don't think that prejudice would exist.

Having said that, permit me to say I have nothing but respect for that same fellow, with that same in-line, if he uses it during "modern" firearm season....that tells me, first off, he is not trying to beat the system, and he truly loves that rifle for what is, and what it will do.

Yep, That is a powerful good question. One that I feel everyone should answer for himself before the bashings start.
Are we bashing the gun, the person, or the concept?

Respecfully, Russ

 

[rabjr]

Lol Stumpkiller I just inherited an old range box with a bunch of .54 cal stuff in it, the 200 roundballs was a nice surprise but I have no use for the 3 packages of Poly - patches. Hmm maybe I could put em on Ebay... ::

 

[Slowpoke]

And remember: "Sabot" is the root for our word "Sabotage." They were probably developed by anti-gunners. :winking:

Anti-gunners, No. The French, Oui.

Sabot in the French language mean "shoe". The word sabotage come from the industrial revolution. When workers, angered by their low pay, threw their shoes into the gears of machines, causing them to breakdown or totally be destroyed.

Like S'Killer said they go far back in their use in weaponry. Don't be afraid of the "Sabot" it's part of our muzzleloading history.

SP

Oh... BTW... please don't pronounce the "t" at the end, that always kills me when I hear it. It like saying you need some roofing nails so you're going to the Home De Pot.

 

[Rebel]

Ya mean it ain't De Pot? :crackup: Dang, wrong all this time. :cry: Thanks fer pointin' that out ta me. ::

 

[musketman]

And remember: "Sabot" is the root for our word "Sabotage." They were probably developed by anti-gunners. :winking:

No, "Sabot" means "Shoe" or a Thrust-Transmitting Carrier...

Webster's

Sabot:
Function: noun
Etymology: French
1 a : a wooden shoe worn in various European countries b (1) : a strap across the instep in a shoe especially of the sandal type (2) : a shoe having a sabot strap
2 : a thrust-transmitting carrier that positions a missile in a gun barrel or launching tube and that prevents the escape of gas ahead of the missile

The sabot is nothing more than a shot cup, like in shot-gunning, only designed for a bullet instead of shot...

Guns envolved, makes sense that the supporting equiptment follows suit as well...

 

The question is, by definition, what is the difference between a patch and a sabot?

You can make darned good "char cloth" out'a real patchs,.... but, them plastic sabut's jest "melt"!! :crackup: :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Stumpkiller]

Twern't the machines they were mad at. You ever stand all day in wood shoes? :haha:

I though the "O" was softer: "Home Dep

 

[Slowpoke]

Post deleted by Slowpoke

Sorry Stumpkiller, I thought you were asking a question. I do need to get outside. I've been spending to much time building this inline action for a new rifle. It's driving me nuts.

SP

 

[Stumpkiller]

'Sa joke, son. I was talking aboot Home Depoot.

Pretty sad when an accountant has to 'splain humor to ye. :crackup:

Get outside and listen to some birds and smell some flowers or something. ::

 

Slowpoke , around here , if you asked for say-bows , the clerk would reply , "say , what ? oh , you mean sab-otts ?" Of course at Wally World , the clerk would tell you all the bows are in aisle 4 . ::