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Thoughts on Flintlocks for Cape buffalo

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Call me nuts, but I've been scheming on a cape buffalo hunt with s flintlock.

I'm thinking that this Getz 1:48 twist .58 caliber barrel would make a great rifle for taking a cape buffalo. I'd be interested in folks with experience with taking such critters ideas on bullet style and loads.

I have a mate to this barrel, 1:66 twist round ball barrel that made up into a great rifle that worked really well for taking plains game. It took a waterbuck, wildebeeste, kudu and impala. The waterbuck and wildebeeste are big enough to rate in the SCI book. All are trophies of a lifetime!

What's your thoughts for bullet style and loads?

Cap'n ted
 
Call me nuts, but I've been scheming on a cape buffalo hunt with s flintlock.

:hmm: ok yer nuts....i seen a show last night on OLN (the outdoor life network) where these guys were useing BIG double rifles in the over .500 cal....these shells were hugh like 6" long....well it took two of them fireing both barrels from both of there guns and reloading and shooting again with the guide helping out with his bolt action gun :shocking: and they were hitting it in the boiler room with all shots....and other one where the buff charged after he was shot (i guess he was mad) and the guys wife got it in back of her legs with both horns then fell on her and broke her coller bone, her left arm and gave her a concusion and almost crushed her to death before her husband and the guides could role it off of her....yeah i think i would go fer them with a muzzleloader too :what: ................bob
 
Yeah yer nutz and I am too. My dream is to hunt Alaska Grizzly some day (not a big giant record-book bear, just a "good one") and that's why I got my Jaeger in .62", as I wanted/want to do it with a round ball gun.

Before I got the Jaeger I had planned on using a .58" slug gun/minnie rifle.

Sounds like you are thinking about slugs, which for cape buff I can't argue with.

In a .58" I think a 600 grain, thick skirted minnie over 120 grains of Swiss ffg would be good. I have fired that load in my Zouave and it has..."authority". I believe that load has been used to good effect in Africa by others.

Choose your back-up well. Unfortunately, just because some bozo calls himself a "guide", does not mean they are a good shot, and can shoot good under pressure. Also guides that choose relatively light caliber rifles for backup duty have kind of raised a red flag, IMHO. (such as a .338WinMag for a back up rifle on a Grizz hunt, instead of a .375 or .458)

:imo:

On my Grizz hunt, I'd like to use another BP shooter for backup, the guide only stepping in if both large caliber ML's failed.

Oh well......dream on.

:sleep:

Rat
 
Use the barrel that you are most comfortable with!!
i would personally use a .58 PRB and hit it where
i wanted to shoot. reguardless i would have a backup
using as much as aloud. mite want to use a .72 SxS
Kodiac. a cape i am told is not the easiest animal
to bring down. But, i am sure a .72 PRB will do the
trick if you hit it where you should.
good luck i envy you for your hunt
snake-eyes :imo: :results: :thumbsup:
 
The English fellahs that actually did this used 4 bores, except one, who had a 2 bore made for big game. I think a .58 might be a bit small.
 
I think this is a great idea so long as you pick the FIRST shot carefully. Buffalo are not indestructable...if they bleed well, they die. Any proper .58 conical in the right spot will do the job. Niki Atcheson would probably be the first to say that she got herself into trouble with that buff by wounding it to begin with. Once the adrenaline gets pumping in game, the rules change.
I have chosen to go with an 8-bore as my North American and African Buffalo rifle but this is pure nostalgia on my part. The only reason Baker carried an 4 bore (it was a 4, not a 2) is because he had elephant on the menu. If he had been hunting an area where there was ONLY the possibility of buffalo, I doubt very much that he would have owned anything bigger than a 12 bore.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek
 
A .58 for Cape Buffalo? :youcrazy: There are recent articles in "Black Powder Hunting" about Cape Buffalo Hunting with 8 bore flintlock and percussion muzzleloaders. Would think the 8 bore double by October Country a good choice; believe a 300 grain charge of 2f with roundball (Approx. 850 grains?) is a standard load for this rifle. Jin Gefrogh used his 8 bore flintlock with a 250 grain charge propelling a giant 1,360 grain conical :: with fiber wad to take a huge Cape Buffalo. He specializes in building large bore muzzleloaders. "Blackpowder Hunting" has had a number of articles with hunters using his guns. His e-mail is: [email protected]. Believe you want something heftier than a .58 for Cape Buffalo! :imo:
 
Has anyone here ever heard of the Darwin awards?

Apparently no one here has hunted in Africa either, or even actually done research on going there (we are not talking about reading in Sports Afield).

The governments there do try to protect their reputations from people with a death wish.

they tell you what you can kill. (just like here)

and how much it will cost (just like here only more$$$)

They tell you what you will use to kill it. (just like here)

They tell you who must be there when you kill the animal. (a registered guide)

You will then be responsible for finding a guide that is willing to stand right behind you while you make a cape buffalo very mad, but not quite dead, with an undercaliber BP gun.

Good luck.
 
This has long been a dream of mine, too, although not with a flinter. I am afraid you would have a hard time finding a professional hunter that would be comfortable with you using a .58 round ball for Cape buff. I think you would virtually guarantee that your buff would be finished by the PH's .458. I spoke with a fellow from Pennsyvlania who hunted Cape buff with a .58 Kodiak and heavy conicals and he wanted more penetration. Said he would like to go back and take a Kodiak .72 instead.
This is not to say it can't be done with a .570 round ball. But by my own preference, I would want to have a darned good chance of finishing what I started without having to have the PH join the fray, and I would probably just pass on the whole thing if all I had was a .58 round ball gun.
I'm just an armchair adventurer, though, as far as Africa is concerned.
But do yourself a favor a Google up a copy of "Wild Beasts and Their Ways" by Samuel Baker. Baker would probably have frowned even on the Kodiak double in .72 unless used with hardened conical and something like 10 drams of powder (270 grains).
Bob J is also right: Find some of Jim Gefroh's articles on hunting Africa with big bore flinters. Good stuff!
 
The reality is that if any bullet of proper diameter and construction makes it into the vitals of a big bovid, whether pushed by smokeless or black powder, the animal will most likely die. I say "most likely" because I have heard stories of Cape Buffalo being taken and, upon field dressing, an old .375 or .458 bullet being discovered in one lung. This may be African lore but even if it is not, it speaks to the need for a proper first shot from ANY weapon, NOT just a muzzleloader. Angle the shot behind the shoulder and into the heart/lungs and you will be fine. You may have to tolerate a PH backing you up immediately if he thinks the shot was bad but that goes with the territory. As for regulations, Bows and handguns are legal for Buffalo and Elephant (respectively) in come countries and there are Professional Hunters who will obviously take guys with front stuffers out for buffalo.

You might check out the articles in the fall 1997 and spring 1993 issues of Blackpowder Hunting about using a .58 and .54 (again, respectively) on cape buffalo. If you do some more digging you will find that people take Buff with muzzleloaders quite regularly. Don't buy wholeheartedly into the mystique...the animals aren't bullet-proof for Christ's sake!

Best,

JohnTheGreek
 
Choose your back-up well. Unfortunately, just because some bozo calls himself a "guide", does not mean they are a good shot, and can shoot good under pressure.


"Requirements to be a Zim PH

1) Write learners theory exams. 4 Papers - Law, Firearms, Habits & Habitats and General paper.

Pass mark is 60% for each paper.

Present your results slip, a letter from a qualified PH stating that he is your tutor and a basic first aid certificate to the hunting office and you will be issued a learners license, and your log book stamped with the date of commencement of your formal apprenticeship.

Many youngsters from school do a year or so as a "gopher" for one of the big companies before they write their learners exams.

The learners is pretty comprehensive but the first three papers are purely book knowledge and anybody with a basic knowledge of the bush and some common sense will pass the "general" paper.

During your time as an apprentice you are expected to a) learn about the bush, b) learn about hunting (as opposed to shooting) c) Learn about clients.

You must also shoot 4 ele/buff (minimum) and 1 lion or 4 leopard. It is also expected that you would have accompanied hunts with clients and your tutor.

As a leaner you are permitted to carry out hunts with clients for soft skinned game in areas where nothing more dangerous than leopard may be encountered. Doing plainsgame hunts is a good way to gain experience in hunting and dealing with clients.

You must then pass a MARS advanced first aid certificate, and the shooting exam. Parks make a variety of ele and buff available to appy hunters but they have to have passed the shooting exam before they can take advantage of whatever ration or problem animals the local warden makes available.

The shooting test is ...

1 Speed shoot (aka Haley's hop) . 3 Targets at 10,15 and 20 paces. maximum of 3 rounds in rifle. on buzzer, shoot furthest to nearest, reload and then shoot near to far. Bull 6" score divided by time. Full house in 24 seconds is the pass mark. (you can of course be faster and less accurate! and still pass)

Major cal (.416 up) scores 5,4,2 (9,3 to .416) Minor scores 5,3,1

Scoring rings 6" bull, 10" inner

2) Run down. 40 meter run and then four targets at 10,15,20,25 m. score divided by time. Full house in 22 seconds to pass

3) Fire and movement. run 30 m then a series of three targets, only one visible at a time. keep waling and shooting. Range to targets only 10 m. Full house in 17 seconds to pass.

4) Accuracy shoot. 2/3 sized buff target at 75m. Two shots in two minutes. A hit in the heart zone scores 10. Anything else is taken as a miss. any position but from the bench. Most shoot from shooting sticks.

When your tutor thinks you know what you are doing, you attend one of the 'Interviews" (held twice a year). Just a short 20 min oral exam to see if you actually know your stuff. Will have an interpretive table with c20 skulls + skin samples for identification plus many skulls from buff antelope etc to estimate trophy size. etc. Interview is intense. Panel of six trying to get through everything from map reading to tree id in 20 mins. If you know your stuff basically and have the required minimum experience you go on the proficiency exam.

You site, and build a fly camp in the Zambezi Valley. Host an examiner. ( three candidates may combine into a camp to keep cost reasonable)

Proficiency lasts a week and candidate will be asked to shoot either an ele or a buff, plus build a blind and bait in a hyena lion or leopard. Hyena are shot for skinning practice, as are baboon. Candidate will be examined on all aspects of being a PH from running a camp, through tacking setting up a hunt, skinning, baits and blinds, trees, birds, spoor you name it. When you have 5 candidates between two examiners and often a 3rd Moderator along as well, and you are with them 14 - 20hrs a day you have plenty of time to ask a million questions.

After that, if you actually show that you are professional, you have the privilege of paying the government and exorbitant annual fee, calling yourself a PH and having hassle free firearms licensing!"

I wish some US guides had to go through the above ! ! ! !

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek
 
Baker would probably have frowned even on the Kodiak double in .72 unless used with hardened conical and something like 10 drams of powder (270 grains).

Might add that the Kodiak .72 is not rated for anything even CLOSE to that kind of load.
 
Thanks for the comments. My PH for my first safari was somewhat apprehensive regarding the effectiveness of the .58 PRB. He had not guided anyone with a ML much less a flintlock. After seeing the effects of a 130gr load of South African FFG and the PRB, he was convinced that it was fully sufficient for the zebra and eland I hunted and didn't get shots at.

He felt he would be willing to back me up if I chose to use the PRB for Cape Buffalo. His impression was that given a solid hit, it would clearly take the bull down without problem.

My comfort level would be higher if I knew I could get good penetration with something like a 750gr+ conical bullet at healthy loading. There are accounts of Turner Kirkland shooting a buffalo with a .58 minie and 150gr powder. Didn't think I'd try nearly that amount of powder.

Glad that the PH has such rigorous requirements when they'll be standing next to me in Zimbabwe. If the .58 doesn't go with me, it will be the 45-120. It proved itself last month on a bison, but cape buffalo are just a lot tougher!

After living and working in SE AK with brown bears, I developed great admiration for my 50 Cal percussion rifle that shoots 550grain conicals with 120 grains of 2fg. While I didn't hunt brown bears with it, it did give me a measure of confidence knowing that it might be more reliable than the flintlock.

Southeast AK deer hunting in the early season can often result in having bear encounters. A flinter with a muddy pan is not comforting when face to face with a brown bear.

Take yourself up there and hunt the bears while you can. Its great country and offers experiences of a lifetime. But, make sure your backup knows what they're doing. Darwin and Murphy are hunters companions in AK!
 
Boy, I'm still thinking that PRB in .58" is a bit too small, I'm a roundball guy, but I'd be looking at a good slug for the penetration, in that bore size.

All things considered, I think a flinter is as reliable as a percussion gun...a flick of the frizzen reveals both the state of the prime, and the main charge.

However, for real wet days, if my bear hunt ever comes true, I'd have a percussion gun along for the option of using it, if I felt the urge/need for any reason. My 1861 is the backup rifle to my Jaeger, and in anything sub-62 calibre I believe a slug is desired, for dangerous game.

But hey, I admit I'm mostly just dreaming...although if I had the money right now, I'd be there.

Rat
 
Cape buffalo with a .58 flintlock? Now there is one hunt I might consider a treestand for.

You could always carry a bow & a couple broadhead tipped arrows for backup. :: They'll kill a cape buffalo, too. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Eventually.
 
Treestand...now why didn't we think of that? Don't believe a 'buff can climb a tree.

Wonder if I could get a grizz to come in under a tree stand...legal to bait grizz? Of course a grizz can climb a tree....

Rat
 
Call me nuts, but I've been scheming on a cape buffalo hunt with a flintlock.

I'm thinking that this Getz 1:48 twist .58 caliber barrel would make a great rifle for taking a cape buffalo. I'd be interested in folks with experience with taking such critters ideas on bullet style and loads.

Ever hear of Val Forgett?

In 1973, he went to Tanzania to hunt the big five... (elephant, cape buffalo, hippo, lion and rhino)

He took a 9 1/2 pound .58 caliber hawken type percussion muzzleloader with a 26 inch barrel length...

The load he used was a 610 grain, modified .58 caliber minie-ball bullet on top of 200 grains of FFFg, later reduced to 180 grains of FFFg... :eek:

The shot (fired 80 yards away) entered the buff's chest between the front legs, passed through the heart and lungs and ended up in the hind quarters...

It has traveled the full length of a mature cape buffalo, one of the planet's toughest animals... :eek: :winking:
 
Musketman: That pretty much duplicates a load old Samuel Baker put a lot of faith in for heavy game: a .577 rifle using a hardened 650-grain conical and 6 drams (about 160 grains) of Curtis and Harvey Diamond Grain powder.
 
Ever hear of Val Forgett?

In 1973, he went to Tanzania to hunt the big five... (elephant, cape buffalo, hippo, lion and rhino)

He took a 9 1/2 pound .58 caliber hawken type percussion muzzleloader with a 26 inch barrel length...

The load he used was a 610 grain, modified .58 caliber minie-ball bullet on top of 200 grains of FFFg, later reduced to 180 grains of FFFg... :eek:

The shot (fired 80 yards away) entered the buff's chest between the front legs, passed through the heart and lungs and ended up in the hind quarters...

It has traveled the full length of a mature cape buffalo, one of the planet's toughest animals... :eek: :winking:
One more little detail about that hunt: That buffalo went 1,000 yards before it dropped. Lucky for Forgett, it used it's adrenalin to run the other way. :eek: ::
 
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