Thread fork, was Idaho's Definition

Runner,.... Yore words have the distinct "ring of truth" to'em!! :applause: :hatsoff:

....... but, I think we're git'n a bit off-topic in regards to traditional muzzleloading seasons. (please don't consider thet as a "flame", but merely as an "observation".)

I have put those who have supported inlines on this forum (in the past) on my "ignore list", and I'd suggest other traditionalist's do the same. (it sure makes for a more "pleasant and enjoyable" day! :haha

YMHS
rollingb

 

I try to focus on why the changes are needed. Of course, I am a nut now you know!
============================================================
LMAO well now runner i wonder how it is that your a nut and i have a militant agenda :shocking:
if that really the case then RollingB must be a militant nut with an agenda . :blah: but what kind of nut ,,, walnut, acorn cashew ???
Or maybe he is a modern nut ,,, naa that cant be because then you would need a bolt and everyone knows he is a traditionalist and doesnt like bolts ,,,,, must be a walnut :front: long live walnuts :crackup: :crackup:

 

I try to focus on why the changes are needed. Of course, I am a nut now you know!
============================================================
LMAO well now runner i wonder how it is that your a nut and i have a militant agenda :shocking:
if that really the case then RollingB must be a militant nut with an agenda . :blah: but what kind of nut ,,, walnut, acorn cashew ???
Or maybe he is a modern nut ,,, naa that cant be because then you would need a bolt and everyone knows he is a traditionalist and doesnt like bolts ,,,,, must be a walnut :front: long live walnuts :crackup: :crackup:

Captchee,.... This traditional walnut's "agenda", is to see the revival of traditional muzzleloading popularity all across the nation, on the hunting-grounds, and other muzzleloading activities. :haha: :thumbsup:

YMHS
rollingb/Rondo

 

[wolf]

Wolf Commented:
> Nothing personal, but why get involved in this?

There's currently a discussion of a Michigan traditional/primitive muzzleloading season elsewhere on this forum, and others. I wish them all of the luck in the world toward achieving it - I'd wouldn't mind having the opportunity to spend more days in the woods myself.

This is why I say "you just don't get it". It's not about "more days in the woods". That's the in-line hunters agenda. It's about the original intent of the season. It's not about more deer or more anything.

In forums such as this the agendas are largely driven by the people with the time, and inclination, to do a lot of posting. This can lead to polarizing discussions as you've recently witnessed here. The real danger lies in assuming that these forums mirror the views of the general hunting population.

A forum will mirror the people of the forum, nothing more and that's the reality of it. If people don't like what they read, they should go someplace else. Right?

 

[Claude Mathis]

The real danger lies in assuming that these forums mirror the views of the general hunting population.

Since you mentioned the Forum, let me comment...

I don't expect this forum to mirror the views of the general public. I see it as a small niche where like-minded people can discuss things they have in common. I think the interests shared here are in the minority of society. All the more reason for this Forum.

Also, the views expressed here will change over time as the membership and the times change.

The following is not aimed at you, but I think it's worth posting here:
We used to be more things to more people. Recently, we became a little more specialized and that has caused quite a bit of confusion. Kind of like going back to a restaurant and finding out that they changed the menu.

Please keep in mind that the owner has a right to change the menu or type of food he serves and the customers have a right to go elsewhere if they don't like the place anymore.

That's the great thing about our country and the Internet - You can start your own forum based on any subject or hobby you wish.

Let me repeat something I wrote recently:

In the larger context, I do agree that gun owners need to "stick together". But, they don't all have to stick together on my Traditional web site. The Forum is only one web site with a narrow interest. We do not have to be all things to all gun owners. That would be like telling a Harley club that they should not focus on one brand of motorcycle, because it hurts the motorcycle community. It makes no sense.

The NRA is for all gun owners. This Forum is more specialized. People have a choice as to where they spend their time.

My point is, people who disagree with the views expressed on this forum would be better off going someplace that is more to their liking, rather than trying to convince "us" that we are misguided.

I'm starting to think that some folks think forums are there just to argue with people and they look for an opportunity to "stir the pot". I assure you, that's not the atmosphere that will be allowed here.

 

[buckknife]

Runner you make a lot a sense.As long as deer numbers are high in some of the states it will be hard to get those restriction applyed,but anuther plus is that high deer populations in these states would be the right time to push for a all traditonal season.Even if it were doe only.I really didnt think we needed a new season here in iowa but a post made by Roundball on anuther thread opened my squinted eyes a little more.The post refered to a traditional hunter who may have put his time in patteren a deer doing all they could to get in range only to have it shot out at 200 yards by sumone using a inline.Words sumting to that effect.Brought back memoreys of a hunt where i had a deer aproahing my range for the roundball when 8 snow machines came ripping along and scared it back to where it came from.It werent a good feeling and i had forgoten about it.I did get a deer about 20 minutes later that i put the sneak on but it was a much harder drag out than the other would have been.So i guess i have had a change of heart,the seasons need to be revised or new traditional seasons need to be added. :front: :master:

 

[Runner]

One, we need to come to a consensus on the platform.
Two, we need to push for those rules to be applied to some managed hunts in each state. It is my belief that even the most hardcore inline fan will sing a different tune if given the opportunity to hunt in a situation where they have to use traditonal equipment. I could be wrong since the people like me are hardcore tradtional fans and the inliners online tend to be the same for their side. Neither of us probabally has a real good handle on the general group since we are both different from that group.

As was said today. I tend to paint all inliners as 150 grain sabot shooting slobs that run around in pickups looking for a shot at game. Yes, way too many of those guys run around doing exactly that where I have been hunting. It is easy to forget the guys like my father that use the muzzleloader season as an extention of the main only, but they are ethical hunters. Several people at the rendezvous today said the earlier problem guys I complain about need a visit from a warden, not a different gun. That is hard to argue with.

The people out at the rendezvous seemed to have a common thought. They don't care about inlines at all. They think a man with an inline loaded with a roundball shooting open sights is fine in their season. For them it is not really about the action, it is about the technology being used with the action to increase it's range. One pointed out that before inlines lots of folks put scopes on their traditional guns at least for a while when they were getting started. Another pointed out the GPR barrels available in conical twists. There may be strong support for no scopes and bullet limitations. I am not finding that support against the inline action.

Scopes seem to be the easiest place to find traction on working towards limiting tech, but it is also one of the thorniest problems in seeming like we are being exclusive.

Maybe it is time for pointed discussions that include all sides views on one subject at a time until the obvious becomes visable!

 

[tg]

"Another pointed out the GPR barrels available in conical twists"

This is a big part of the rift...mixing the old with new technolgy in the sights and projectile department, you can take an original Dickert gun re bore for the use of modern bullets and add long range modern sights and it would not be a gun for traditional hunting seasons, untill some standards ( realistic ones) are set as to what fits in a Traditional seasons there will be little chance of accomplishing anything for the liberal mix of old and new is what tainted the original seassons and swayed things away from the "intent" and there may be to little in the way of such gear treadily available or to few "traditionalist" that really want to be traditionalists to float the boat.

 

[roundball]

Maybe it is time for pointed discussions that include all sides views on one subject at a time until the obvious becomes visable!

Maybe the TMA could host such a discussion on their website.

 

Maybe it is time for pointed discussions that include all sides views on one subject at a time until the obvious becomes visable!

Maybe the TMA could host such a discussion on their website.

Roundball,.... Now don't be send'n "those" who defend the use of modern inlines, over to the TMA website!! :haha: :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[roundball]

It seems like just the kind of thing that a national ML organization should get involved with

 

I'm sure we will, but not on the TMA website. :haha:

If the "controversy" hasn't been settled here yet, it won't git settled there either. :imo:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[ktw]

tg>`No, No, No...not on the hunters only their perverted choice of weapons.

I agree that most of these guys are ending up with the wrong guns. Nevertheless, I have a hard time characterizing their choices as perverted, when in my experience they've all made a rational choice from among the options they were aware of at the time they made the decision. They asked the other people they know what they've been using, they shopped on price and then picked something from among what was available on the retail shelf. The vast majority of them don't personally know _any_ traditional shooters and I have _never_ seen a roundball or flintlock rifle on a retail store shelf in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

So their first gun is likely a poor choice. Water under the bridge. At least they showed an interest in the sport. Many of them are wide open to other options and would happily try traditional guns if they were only exposed to it as a viable option. The fact that their second and third guns also turn out to be inlines very often says just as much about all of us, for neglecting to show them a better way, than it says about them as participants in the muzzleloader season. The extent to which we drive them deeper into the inline camp with our rhetoric is all our fault.

It's become readily apparent to me over the course of this discussion that the concept of a "tolerant traditional muzzleloading enthusiast" is completely beyond the grasp of some of you. Fair enough. I'm here to stay - all I own are roundball guns and I recognize this as _the_ place for good roundball information. However, in order to save you the anguish of being exposed to a dissenting opinion, I will refrain from actively participating in your political discussions going forward.

Good luck with your traditional muzzleloading seasons. You're really going to need it.

-ktw

 

[Runner]

What organization should that be? The one that is holding inline target shoots?
Much of muzzleloading is this way. Here in Mo, a club holds what they call a state championship match. No group of clubs agreed to this being a championship shoot that I know of. Most of the people involved in the sport don't even know the shoot is being held, much less that it is a supposed championship match. There is another club that was holding a "Championship" match. No one knows how, why, or by whose authority it became a State Championship match. All that is known is that a club that is an NMLRA affiliate holds what is called the state championship. It is on the same weekend as one of the regionals, making sure most of the best are elsewhere. I finally met someone today at the rendezvous that claims to have been at this shoot. He also claimed that 1-48 barrels are not good enough to win with in the 4-h classes shooting light loads, so who knows. Most of the people I have asked about it don't even know what or who the club is.

So what organization are you suggesting we use? The one that has included inlines in their shoots? That allows their affiliates to declare their shoot a state championship with no other state concensus and then hold it on a regional date? I for one think that the whole system is so messed up that it is time to start over. I do not have such a website or group in my back pocket tho. All of my and my friends efforts have been here in our state attempting to educate our representatives as to the difference between an Ultimate Inline and a Hawken caplock. We don't have a website at this time.

 

[roundball]

What organization should that be?

Whatever organization(s) that might possibly be interested in and suited for the effort...NMLRA? TMA? State organizations? Some new organization?

I think the greater point is that Claude has repeatedly made it clear this site ISN'T the place for those kinds of pointed discussions / debates between inliners and traditionalists.

He locked the original thread because of the same kind of drift that this splinter thread is already beginning to take.

eace:

 

[Runner]

Apologies Roundball, I had not seen the obvious problem post.


What direction is that Roundball? So far I have not seen any personal attacks. I saw one person saying that they understood what I posted but that such compromises cause many of todays problems. If this post is too controversial, I will not even attempt to tell you about the way I caught a bass the other day!

Claude, is this post over stepping the boundaries in this forum? There was no slamming or negative intended.

 

Runner,.... Please check yore PM's.

YMHS
rollingb

 

[tg]

"If that is the case, then I think would only be fair to everyone for that agenda to be advertised by the forum Admin.
Perhaps this forum should be only for those that agree to a specific agenda and posture? Then you can talk amongst yourselves? "

Taq, the above is one of many many eloquent comments, well written and possible impresive to some possible interpreted by some as being fluent and intelectual, yet I have failed to see a common consistent current of thought that has flowed through all of your rhetoric and arguements and statements of position on issues, this is not intended as a flame though I feel you are as far to the left of this as I am to the right (not only a political reference)I cannot help but wonder if there is a point or logical conclusion to where you are going or if you simply enjoy banter and arguement, at any rate your post have been ....interesting if quite transparent, and I will leave it at that.

 

[Tahquamenon]

Ok TG and my newest friend Runner

 

[Claude Mathis]

Is the agenda and goal of this forum to revise all existing on the books muzzleloading hunting regulations for all states to exclude modern muzzleloading weapons?

This Forum has no "agenda" other than to provide a "forum". That is, a place where people may discuss the issues. Obviously I have narrowed the issues to traditional muzzleloading weapons, but other than that, there's no agenda to revise the laws of our country.

The forum is not a political entity nor does it necessarily endorse the views expressed on the Forum.